Posted By Liesel Hi Scott, A year or few back I had a similar situation with a private sector Social Housing provider. Whilst technically it is correct to say that Regulation 4 of CAR and the "Duty to Manage" only applies to "non-domestic" premises (which BTW in the org I worked for included a considerable amount of common areas of dwellings like flats), in practise the owner of the property still must give information to persons working on the buildings about hazards that might cause them harm as well as protecting their own workforce from hazards. There were I seem to remember also issues about "fitness of dwellings" to consider (sorry if I'm a bit hazy, it was a few years ago I went through all the stuff). In the case I was in, a systematic programme of surveys proved to be the most cost-effective means of managing the risk- but note the systematic issue. A programme of surveys need not be a nightmare scenario, especially if preceeded by a suitable desk study to get a handle on prioritisation and if an outline set of procedures are in place for the workforce in case of discovering a "suspect" material- although in housing you will have to handle the publicity carefully. (The org I worked with had issues such as tenants using "fear of asbestos" to get otherwise unobtainable transfers.) Another one to watch is gross over-reaction... Also note that (even in non-domestic premises) the Regulation 4 Duty is a "Duty to Manage" not a "Duty to Survey." Depending on your situation, there may be other means of managing the risk posed to your workforce by possible presence of asbestos in the housing stock- without knowing your detailed set-up one cannot say for sure. I think the best advice I can give if you go down the survey route is not to panic, to look at a systematic programme and to choose your survey provider VERY VERY carefully. There's some excellent providers out there, but also some real cowboys who will happily rip you off and also do rubbish work. Lowest bid tender is rarely the way to go- I've seen a few clients in deep doo-doo because of that approach. Plus you really need to have a handle on what the thing is about- the HSE publication "A comprehensive Guide to Managing asbestos in premises" HSG 227 is generally a good place to start. I hope that helps, feel free to e-mail if you have more specific qs.

Posted By Adrian Watson Totally agree with both of the above. The key to managing asbestos is to have trained workers visiting site. If they cannot identify the material as being a non-asbestos material, then it is asbestos! Other than type 3 surveys. type 2 and 1 surveys in domestic properties are generally a waste of time and money. Especially if they are following MSDS 100. What is required is a materials survey to identify the method of construction and the materials used. Regards Adrian

Posted By ddraigice Unfortunately yes. "Any ACM identified or suspected will need to be inspected periodically to check it has not deteriorated or been damaged". But the frequency will depend on where it is and the likelihood it will be damaged. As a minimum the ACoP states checks every 6 to 12 months.

Posted By ddraigice There is no time frame specified in the regulation but the guidance is explicit that it should not be more than 12 months - para 108, page 20 of L127. That will be good enough for a court if you fail to do it!

Posted By Liesel But you still have an obligation to prevent harm to your employees...... (and others of course). Surveys can be one part of an approach to doing that, but as I say they may not- never forget that even where premises ARE covered by Reg 4 of CAR it is a Duty to Manage NOT a Duty to Survey. Surveys are a tool to manage, not an end in themselves. If your org head wants Type 2 surveys done, then again there are several approaches to delivering the process. In housing it is not uncommon for "representative sampling" be used. Not strictly MDHS 100 but an approach that can under certain circumstances be used. I would once more emphasise the importance of having suitable systems/training in place for your staff should they discover a suspect material- in fact under Reg 10 CAR you must give a minimum level of training unless you can guarantee they work in buildings free from asbestos which in reality is a difficult guarantee to make! (I have some model systems for such if it is of any use). BTW, to answer you original q very specifically, the guidelines in HSG227 state that where an ACM is left in place and monitored re-inspctions should be no less that every 6 months. However, I do not recommend a need to re-inspect is taken as an excuse to remove out even low risk ACMs (as one client I worked with was insisting on doing, even for vinyl tiles, and at great expense). Many Housing set-ups have a whole range of statutory inspections (eg gas appliances) and with a bit of multi-skilling re-inspections can become part of an existing system. Again, rather than jump on the "survey 100% now" too hard, I'd advise stepping back and thinking about how you manage the issue- doing Tpye 2 surveys on all the properties will not actually achieve this, only provide info to aid themanagement. Even without the formal "Duty to Manage" I would say you still have to think about how you will manage the issue- especially tenant communication. Again- get HSG227 and read it thoroughly. Yes, it's focused on non-dom premises, but there is a case-study in there for housing, and it will offer a useful and defensible model.

Posted By Adrian Watson There is no duty to manage in domestic properties. In non-domestic parts of properties the duty is to manage. Part of this duty is to inspect the condition of the material. This duty is not to resurvey, and having regard to it being in a domestic premises the risk from any material should be low. If is in such a poor condition it should be out of the property. Any remaining material can be inspected by a competent tradesman who can say "cor blimey guv, this has been damaged! This can be done yearly or less. Regards Adrian