Posted By Ian Blenkharn
It's all part of being in a civilised society. You can join if you want to.

Posted By Martyn Hendrie
schui,

I don't know if your posting was intended to be provocative or not, but here is why you should administer first aid.

1. It is a legal requirement for the employer to ensure employees have access to suitable first aid treatment.

2. As stated by previous respondent helping injured people is part of a civilised society.

You seem to be suggesting that because an IP is silly enough not to wear PPE they should suffer some penalty. He/she does when they try to seek compensation for their injuries it is called "contributory negligence"

Beware of the trolls

Posted By Ian Blenkharn
I wholeheartedly stand by my comment.

Your response, together with the sentiments that you express in your original post, merely serve to reinforce that opinion.

Posted By D H
Well said Lynda - and it begs the question - why are the supervisors allowing the non compliance with PPE to continue??

Over to you Schui?

Dave

Posted By schui
Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond

Posted By John J
Schui,

Its frustrating but your role should be to provide clear and unambiguous guidance on PPE requirements and ensure there is enough choice to allow users to find a comfortable set of LEP.

Its your supervisors role to ensure they and staff wear it and your line managers role to ensure your supervisors are adhering to company policy and protecting the employees and business reputation/operations.

A defence of 'I've told him a dozen times' will carry no weight in court.

The situation you are in at the moment will be summed up to your supervisor, by the judge, in the claims court as
'So you had many opportunities to intervene and prevent this terrible accident but you failed in your duties as a manager and allowed this individual to get hurt. Is that correct'?

The defendant will get a reduced claim, no doubt, but you'll still be paying out.

As for refusing first aid you cannot morally or legally do that.

The uncomfortable question your MD needs to ask your managers is 'what exactly am I payimg you for?'

Posted By Tony Lawton
Hi

Recognise and agree with other poster's comments about the statutory and moral duties to render first aid, which is what the subject title is all about. Whether they wore PPE or not shouldn't influence the decision to render first aid at all.

No doubt it will influence any claim for compensation to some degree by either the claimant or defendant.

Other than that....

It seems your organisation has difficulties with the acceptability of PPE within the workforce, which is a different issue and well documented.

Without information, it is easy to make too many assumptions. My own experience has tended to follow the pattern of one individual being 'overlooked' leading to a few more following in their footsteps.

Examples include the removal of hi vis vests in hot, humid weather while working indoors. One individual takes it off, a few Min's alter other see and follow suit. You could of course sympathise with the individual, but at the end of the day, it was a hi vis area where vehicles and people closely interact. We minimised the heat by providing mobile air conditioning units and cool drinking water to hand. In reality the hi vis vests didn't significantly add to the heat at all, but we recognised an issue and dealt with it.

Another example included an individual that refused to wear safety boots, preferring his trainers. He had no logical reason whatsoever, and stubbornly refused to wear his boots. It ended up with me giving him two options - wear the boots, or be removed from the job and sent to HR, because i would be subject to disciplinary action myself if i 'turned a blind eye', and i wasn't prepared to risk my job over that. He chose to put his boots on.

Later i found out he was simply 'trying it on' - i was a new supervisor at that time introduced to a workforce who had been there a long time. If i had turned a blind eye, and avoided confrontation, no doubt i would have been surrounded by a wide range of branded trainers at some point :]

If you can relate to these examples of non compliance, your organisation has to nip it in the bud before it becomes 'acceptable' not to wear PPE. If it has clear cut rules about PPE (it should) then those individuals responsible for enforcement (might be the safety officer, should be the supervisor/manager) need to take relevant action sooner not later.

Regards
Tony

Posted By water67.
Hi, would it not follow from your view that car drivers not wearing a seat belt, motor cyclist or cyclist not wearing helmets, pads etc should not get hospital treatment if injured? the issue for me isn't H&S but management..remember just about everything has the over rider: information, training, instruction and supervision..seems to me supervision is the issue as well as sanctions..to take dave wilsons point..when caterpillar tractors had a factory near me..they had a strict rule eye protection must be worn at all times in machine shops even by staff just passing through..2 strike rule applied..caught second time not wearing eye protection..dismissed..may seem harsh but they never had a serious eye injury.

Cheers

Posted By Phil Rose
I can't help but agree with Ian's first response (since deleted by the mod)

Two wrongs don't make a right - do they?

A forestry worker doesn't wear his chainsaw trousers.
Subsequently suffers a traumatic injury as a result
You don't give first aid
He bleeds to death
Justification for allowing that to happen - he should have been wearing his trousers!

So back to the original question - Why should you give first aid? I should have thought that the answer was obvious!

Providing first aid is....er...providing first aid. Getting people to wear their PPE is another matter and you should use education, and if necessary the disciplinary process to make sure that this happens.

Phil

Posted By clairel
schui,

If this isn't a wind up thread then I think you may need to reconsider whether you are suited to this profession.

Posted By steve grimes
of course yougive them first aid and any other benefits your company provides
are you living in Dickensian england?

Posted By schui
Hi All

I am not based in England

I am a member of IOSH

And i simply asked a question as to whether it was a possible route to try and get the employees to wear PPE

I have went through a lot of different options and last week we were in an IOSH training and one of the managers asked if this was an option and i simply posted it here

I am terribly sorry if I offended anyone

I think that is one of the biggest draw backs for posting on this site is that there seems to be a lot of people on a lot of high horses

Posted By clairel
schui,

We are shocked because you did not just pose the question you in fact said that the way you see it why should you provide first aid if they won't wear PPE.

If you don't want to offend anyone or be misunderstood then think about your words carefully before posting.

And to be honest I am quite reassured by the fact that people on here were outraged at the suggestion that we shouldn't provide first aid. Good on you everyone!

Posted By Phil Rose
Steve

To save being accused of being 'on my high horse', do I only need to limit any reply on this forum to 'yes' or 'no'! I am not sure if that is helpful but that's only my humble opinion.

By the way, didn't you use 19 words too many in your first post and a further 20 too many in your second?