Posted By paulw71
Mug’s game? Excessive risk aversion
Would you pay a health and safety consultant £200 to produce a 17-page document highlighting the risks to your staff of making a cup of tea? East Hertfordshire Council has, and claims it was money well spent. But was the council taking a sensible precaution or was it a case of health and safety overkill?

Discuss

Posted By paulw71
http://www.thesun.co.uk/...0,,2-2006230430,,00.html

Im not a sun reader but the original link was in workplace law network and without membership you wouldnt have been able to view it, Dont know what this article is like but knowing the sun facts wont be the strong point.

Posted By Carl West
Just to put another slant to this debate.

If there are suggestions of increase in illnesses from scalds, burns etc... maybe even some sort of claim. Then isnt it £200-00 well spent

Particulary if you have a high turnover. £200 is just a tiny number to a council these days

Posted By Yossarian
I found this article but it was published back in 2006:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/...ge/news/article49086.ece

Nothing in the other press though.

Posted By paulw71
Shane

Are you by chance a consultant working for Hertfordshire council ?

Posted By Raymond Rapp
Can't agree with Shane. Coffee or tea making is an everyday activity whether at home or work and should not require detailed analysis in my opinion. I prefer to focus on the real risks. Yes, you can be injured through making coffee, but then again nothing is without some risk.

Two hundred pounds for a 17 page report! Assuming each page was written by the consultant that equates to about 7,5000 words and far too cheap.

Posted By A Campbell
oops.. (herts council!)

Posted By holmezy
As a person who has suffered from injuries sustained during Coffee making i find your post rather offensive. You obviously do not understand how dangerous coffee making can be. I sustained a burnt finger nail when i was young and have never been the same again.

I do feel that £200 pounds is fair for the services provided. In fact i would argue that it should have been more. How many lives do you think have now been saved by that assessment?

Shane,

without wanting to demean your injury, of all the hazards in the world, I don't think that the HASAW Act was introduced to combat those associated with coffee making, or equally hazardous, tea making. Making hot beverages, I think, would be considered to be part of everyday life, and not therefore something that most, if not all, safety bods consider high on the list of things to control. Making tea / coffee is a learning experience and usually novice tea makers are already aware of, or are told by an elder that the water is hot so be careful! But I do accept that accidents happen and injuries occur, in your case a burnt finger nail (?) but I guess that you are a little more careful now when you make coffee?

I really don't know how many lives have been saved by that or any other risk assessment, does anybody? How do you quantify how good a RA is in terms of "lives saved"?

Either you are a very sensitive person or I have just been trolled? If you are concerned about the hazards involved in making hot beverages, then the water should be boiling to make tea so that infusion takes place effectively, and just under boiling for coffee so as not to "burn the bean". Both options will still make your skin hurt so "be careful" with hot water!

Please tell me your a troll?

Holmezy

Posted By paulw71
I think you are all being to harsh on shane.
I myself am undergoing therapy after a shard of hobnob became lodged in my eye.

Posted By Tabs
holmezy et al,

there is another side which I have seen too often, and is topical ...

Small burn, personal injury claim, no risk assessment, insurers pay regardless.

£200 might be the council just closing that door, having been caught out by it before.

Posted By Andy Petrie
Irony is lost on some people

Posted By Safe System
tea lady in office needs a method statement on how to make a decent bloomin cuppa...

Posted By holmezy
Tabs et al,

the scenario you have described does happen, and insurance companies do pay out, but surely that doesnt make it right? With reference to the Panorama thread and "have we gone too far" threads......its turning into a mad mad mad world. Quentin Letts summed the Panorama program up by saying something along the lines of "people should take responsibility for their own actions" and "use common sense". Making tea and coffee are considered to be everyday tasks, not exclusively performed in the workplace so why would someone expect to be compensated for a scold or burn at work, when at home they would just consider themselves a bit "clumsy" and run their hand under a cold tap? If they had to visit hospital, they'd probably feel a bit of a chump explaining how they got the injury. I wouldn't expect them to start a legal writ against Mr Morphy and Mr Richards for supplying a kettle without full and comprehensive idiot proof instructions. At the workplace however, its never their fault and someone else must be to blame,,,,,,cue the lawyers and insurance payout!

I've carried out a risk assessment on our tea and coffee making facilities and have deemed that yes, boiling water could scold someone. In fear of any impending legal action I have decided to ban the use of hot water. In line with the welfare regs, I have not stopped the provision of hot water, but I have insisted that people let it cool until below 20 degs before they attempt to use it. This should ensure that there are no burns or scolds recorded in the future. Any one not following these controls will be subject to disciplinary proceedures. That should do it!!

Its a mad mad mad world, and as folks in other posts have stated, until we (H+S bods), insurance companys, lawyers and employees start to use a little more common sense (if it is common at all?) then it aint gonna change!

Shane is a troll.....right?

Holmezy