Jonathan,

its still thursday, but looking forward to tomorrow, a christmas friday forum!

I wonder what this has to do with David Cameron, is he the domestic property owner/occupier?

Who is the client here, is it the person requesting the work or is it your decorator/handyman?

Is the domestic property owner/occupier not allowed to request proof of competence?

Why is your client bothered by the request, is it because he cannot provide?

It's Friday now so rant on!

I think the point is why would you expect a NEBOSH qualification per se as proof of competence.

Walkera,

The problem is that there are too many who can't see a problem with that.

I think the point is that Mr Cameron is talking out of his behind - He is jumping on the band wagon.
Lets face it there is a lot of dribble that mentions health and safety. The actual legislation is their to protect the work force, it wouldn't be there if we didn't need it.
The HSE prosecute a lot of people every year who disregard the law.
Look at the fire work incident in East sussex. No remorse from the guilty parties for causing the death of two fire brigade personnel.
When the greedy and inept people of this world stop risking the safety of their work forces, then minimise legislation. Self regulation does not work.
We need presciptive Laws to ensure the work force is kept safe not some politician saying we will cut bureaucracy to gain votes from people who don't want to be bothered.
As far as litigation goes there are no more cases now than ten years ago, we don't live in a claim culture society as the press likes us to believe.
I've had my rant now its up to others.

I thing, therefor I am, that our indusrty is being lead by the following:
Insurance company lawers.
The question about H&S person was mentioned earlier, NEBOSH sould not be asked for, grade should be.
I have meet many chemists that have CMIOSH after their name, would I call them competent to do the job? not on a construction site.
Self regulation does not work, we are are own worst enemy, lost our way, and need a practical approach.
Cameron has never done a days work in his life, would like to know who signs the conservitve part H&S policy for their employees, party hq staff!!!!!
How far have we realy come? manage the risk not the paper work, quote the HSE calander 2009.
Anybody read Donaghy one death too many?
It is an intersting eye opener.......
One last thing, personnaly I prefered the old style forum page, lot mor user friendly:-) and it had a spell checker. this note is posted FRIDAY 18th!!!!!!!!

Totally agree Peter. The Factories acts certainly cut down on workplace fatalities and injuries didn't they?

Redken perhaps I misunderstood. As Jay says, we also have seperate sub con assessments for one man bands as opposed to larger subbies.

That said pre qual questionairres are a pain as everyone wants different things. Jumping through hoops is the main requirement for a subbies Safety man.

Andy

Quote from the report mentioned earlier

b) Secondly, although I had an interesting meeting with the Association of British Insurers about how insurance companies responded to safety in the construction industry, I became conscious that there was insufficient published information available on which to base reliable conclusions or recommendations. I advised the research team at Loughborough University accordingly as it would have meant spending a disproportionate amount of their time on this topic. Insurance is a highly competitive industry with specialist insurance covering large construction projects and low margin premiums covering the bottom end. I do believe it is worthy of further exploration however, if only to explore discount schemes and safety incentives or possible sponsorship of safety advisors.

Page 10 para b) Rita Donaghy’s report to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. One Death is too Many Inquiry into the Underlying Causes of Construction Fatal Accidents
link http://www.lacors.gov.uk/LACORS/upload/22015.pdf

For those who would like to read the report.

We seem to be getting some biased, political, ranting here! If one took the time to read the speech and talk to the Head Office of the CP one would find a very different picture to that painted here and by the press. As it is I am only too happy for clients to feel the pressure many contractors have felt over the years.

The new SSIP scheme much supported by the HSE has all the faults of the old schemes who are now members. Why oh why when the HSE have issued a very good model of Competence Management for Safety Critical Control systems have they permitted themselves to become enmeshed in groups who seem to think appendix 4 is the best and only model of competence. It is not and will not be so as it fails to address what the HSE believes are true needs of competence in its competence management model. The CDM scheme was badly written and for organisations who are gaining financially from performing assessments to also write the standards for assessment seems rather like getting the poacher to judge the poacher, so to speak.

There is a great need for a proper Competence Management Standard that is set either by BS or ISO such that Independent auditors with at least 5 day IRCA training can properly assess the organisation. At this point the whole pre-assessment issue should be become a much smaller duck to kill. With the best will in the world there are not enough competent IOSH members available to assess the C1m organisatipons involved in construction, excluding clients and supply companies.

The attitude of the CP is what Robens envisaged but the nanny state of Labour has obscured that very laudable vision.

Bob

Peter

Just trying to balance a very biased picture:-) It seems to be forgotten that the Conservative government drafted and put to parliament what is now known as the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974, it was called the Safety and Health at Work Act at that point but fell due to the 1974 election.

We should remember that the Robens dream was self regulation by those who could manage H&S effectively and greater enforcement and inspection of those who could not. It was regarded by all as a wonderful idea then, including the Trade Unions and Labour as I remember.

Bob