Rank: Super forum user 
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We have a member of staff who is signed off work for something serious to their back (but the original issue was not work-related). However, they keep turning up in the office for unclear reasons - I suspect boredom and/or an unwillingness to let go of their projects, or possibly they just love all their workmates. They sit at their desk, catch up on email, chat a bit, go away.
I'm somewhat loathe to actively ban them from the office, but I fear that if their condition deteriorated and it came to a claim situation and they claimed they'd been asked (or even instructed) to come in we have no way of refuting that. There's no way I can prove that someone didn't ask them verbally to come in (everyone in the management chain swears absolutely this is not the case - but how would you prove that to a court).
Is this a risk? How to deal with someone that won't stay away?
Does being signed off mean they must not come to work, or only that they can choose not to come to work?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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An unusual problem! I would have thought this was one for HR, but I believe an employee is either fit for work or not fit for work, and only a doctor can decide that. If they have been signed off but came in, would they be covered by employee liability insurance if anything happened? A doctor can issue a 'fit for work' note which can say they can come back to do light duties (or even specify specifically what they are allowed to do), then you would need to do a risk assessment for him and his temporary incapacity. I think someone needs to inquire why he is doing this, and can you help in any way? If he's worried about anything then a caring employer would help any way they could because it will help him to get better. I'm not sure if coming in just to know everything is alright in his world is an issue or not from a compliance point of view. Perhaps if he were invited in, he would be just another member of the public and covered under public liability? Depends whether the company are willing to spend time and effort on the issue or just want him to stay away I suppose, but he's doing it for some reason that's important enough to make the effort. Be kind, talk to him.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I thought the doctor's Fit Note was exactly what it says on the tin - they are either fit to resume normal employment duties OR to conduct limited employment duties with modification as listed OR unfit to resume work until..... Take a look at what their last note actually said (what they are doing may already be covered).
In the event they reappear and any work related activity is not covered by the existing note quietly advise them of the content and should they wish to continue such visits the business will need a revised doctors note.
You can't stop the social / condition up date visits but just to bring home the point until they are fit for work then they are a site visitor - detailing site attendance through the visitor book is your record the buisness considers them not to be at normal paid work.
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 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I thought the doctor's Fit Note was exactly what it says on the tin - they are either fit to resume normal employment duties OR to conduct limited employment duties with modification as listed OR unfit to resume work until..... Take a look at what their last note actually said (what they are doing may already be covered).
In the event they reappear and any work related activity is not covered by the existing note quietly advise them of the content and should they wish to continue such visits the business will need a revised doctors note.
You can't stop the social / condition up date visits but just to bring home the point until they are fit for work then they are a site visitor - detailing site attendance through the visitor book is your record the buisness considers them not to be at normal paid work.
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2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Sorry, but a Doctor's note doesn't carry the weight it once did, and employers are free to overrule it should they choose to do so. Therefore, the person concerned doesn't need to return to the GP for a further note if they wish to return early, and instead should sit down with their line manager / HR to discuss options. Equally however, the employer doesn't have to take them back early if they don't feel it's the right thing to do either.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: Roundtuit  I thought the doctor's Fit Note was exactly what it says on the tin - they are either fit to resume normal employment duties OR to conduct limited employment duties with modification as listed OR unfit to resume work until..... Take a look at what their last note actually said (what they are doing may already be covered).
In the event they reappear and any work related activity is not covered by the existing note quietly advise them of the content and should they wish to continue such visits the business will need a revised doctors note.
You can't stop the social / condition up date visits but just to bring home the point until they are fit for work then they are a site visitor - detailing site attendance through the visitor book is your record the buisness considers them not to be at normal paid work.
That is my understanding too. If he wants to come back to work the doctor can indicate that he is fit to, under certain caveats and if the employer agrees to it.
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Rank: Super forum user
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4 users thanked Elfin Davy 09 for this useful post.
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Originally Posted by: Elfin Davy 09 Sorry, but a Doctor's note doesn't carry the weight it once did, and employers are free to overrule it should they choose to do so. Therefore, the person concerned doesn't need to return to the GP for a further note if they wish to return early, and instead should sit down with their line manager / HR to discuss options. Equally however, the employer doesn't have to take them back early if they don't feel it's the right thing to do either.
Exactly. But if the doctor says he is unfit for work in all circumstances, can the employer insist he returns anyway? I can't imagine that is the case. (I know that is not the case here, but just to clarify?)
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Rank: Super forum user
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Sorry , posts crossed in the er, post. Wow, I didn't know that. But actually I agree with the ruling in principle. But it does also make an opening for a OH doctor to be in the pocket of the company I suppose.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Or this one...
https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/caring-carers-and-long-term-conditions/can-i-go-back-to-work-before-the-end-date-on-my-fit-note/
Dave5705 - No, an employer shouldn't insist on an employee returning to work if they're clearly unfit (or arguably in any situation where an employee says they're unfit for that matter), but there are situations where an employee actually wishes to return to work, and the (often misunderstood) reason they can't is the fit note which says they're not fit for work. In situations such as this, it IS possible for an employee and employer to sit down (ignoring the fit note) and agreeing on a way whereby such willing employees are able to return to work no matter what the fit note states. Hope this clarifies.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: Elfin Davy 09 Or this one...
https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/caring-carers-and-long-term-conditions/can-i-go-back-to-work-before-the-end-date-on-my-fit-note/
Dave5705 - No, an employer shouldn't insist on an employee returning to work if they're clearly unfit (or arguably in any situation where an employee says they're unfit for that matter), but there are situations where an employee actually wishes to return to work, and the (often misunderstood) reason they can't is the fit note which says they're not fit for work. In situations such as this, it IS possible for an employee and employer to sit down (ignoring the fit note) and agreeing on a way whereby such willing employees are able to return to work no matter what the fit note states. Hope this clarifies.
Yes, that was my understanding. Thanks for providing clarity.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Better check the Occupational Health's Professional Indemnity certificate if they are going to be used to over rule medical practitioner assessments. This change strikes me as being more to allow private contractors to undermine GP's decisions in the realms of benefits and disguising as assisting business.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Better check the Occupational Health's Professional Indemnity certificate if they are going to be used to over rule medical practitioner assessments. This change strikes me as being more to allow private contractors to undermine GP's decisions in the realms of benefits and disguising as assisting business.
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Rank: Super forum user
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More money to be made by the lawyers, sorting out the disputes.
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