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wilco612  
#1 Posted : 04 March 2019 10:36:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wilco612

Hi all

I have a question which has been asked of me, and want your opinions.

An employee was working at a well known bakery and suffered a burn to their hand from a hot tray. They had removed their gloves at the time.  The bakery did not have any first aid equipment for burns and sent them to Boots next door.  The employee had to pay for their own burns treatment.

The question is two-fold. Would you have expected the risk assessment to cover burns, bearing in mind this was a bakery where hot baking trays would be common place.  Secondly would the employee have to pay for their own treatement?

Many thanks

hilary  
#2 Posted : 04 March 2019 10:52:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

Yes, the risk assessment should have shown that burns were a distinct possibility.  However, as the recommended first aid treatment for burns is to run the burn under cold water for at least 20 minutes, I do not think that the bakery were at fault as long as cold water was in plentiful supply and the employee was allowed to use this treatment.

If the employee wanted to purchase a topical burn screen or treatment then that would be up to them and at their cost.

biker1  
#3 Posted : 04 March 2019 11:02:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Two issues suggest themselves here. Firstly, why was the employee handling hot baking trays without gloves? You wouldn't do this at home, would you? Secondly, first aid treatment for burns, as mentioned, is cold water (although the old standby of frozen peas wrapped in a tea towel can be useful). As far as I'm aware, first aid training does not include putting lotions and potions on burns, so not sure what was hoped for in sending them to Boots. Did the employee have cold water over the burn, or were they just sent next door. If the latter, this suggests negligence.

wilco612  
#4 Posted : 04 March 2019 11:11:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wilco612

As far as I am aware the tray had dropped and they had instinctively attempted to stop it falling any further.

I will check whether they had run their hand/or been told to run their hand under cold water.  It does suggest a touch of negligence sending them next door to have it treated.

chris42  
#5 Posted : 04 March 2019 11:54:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Was there a first aider? what did they say

A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 04 March 2019 12:10:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Would expect the employer to have produced a risk assessment and that this risk assessment would have identified the risk of employees being burned while handling trays. I would also expect the employer to have trained their staff and to use suitable PPE ie gloves to get hot trays out of ovens. The manager should keep an eye of staff and to make sure that they do use the gloves (assuming that they are there and in good nick).  There should be a suitable first aid kit in the bakery and  staff should have access to cold running water or a cool pack to deal with any burn. The manager should be able to decide if the burn is serious enough to warrant medical attention.

The fact that employee went to a nearby pharmacy to self-treat leads me to suspect that the bakery:

  1. Hadn’t done a risk assessment  that was suitable and sufficient
  2. That it hadn’t trained it’s staff (including the manager)
  3. And that it did not have enough  suitable first aid equipment
thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
SJP on 05/03/2019(UTC)
Kate  
#7 Posted : 04 March 2019 12:37:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

According to first aid at work training I recently attended, the treatment for burns is cold running water then dressing with clingfilm, and the application of substances was explicitly "not recommended".

I once got quite cross when a burned employee helped themselves to a burns dressing from the first aid room without either thinking to use a tap or seeking advice from a first aider.

Dave5705  
#8 Posted : 04 March 2019 12:54:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Dave5705

How the burn happened is one for the investigation. Yes hot oven trays should have been foreseen as a hazard in a bakery. Yes there should be a first aider and first aid kit available but it would not and should not contain any burn cream but it should contain cling film in this environment.

As has been said, cold water, cold water, and more cold water, and then some ...more cold water is the first aid treatment. Cling film can be used to keep out dirt and infection on the trip to the treatment room and it won't stick to the wound like a bandage will. A first aider is not a medical professional and cannot (or should not) apply creams or any pharmacological treatment of any kind. They will do no good, may cause infection, and just get in the way of treatment later. All doctors use on burns is petroleum jelly. it's all just to protect from infection.

Cool, Call (for help) Cover.

How can a bakery not have an appointed first aider who knows how to deal with burns for heaven's sake? Better ask Greg

jodieclark1510  
#9 Posted : 04 March 2019 14:36:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jodieclark1510

You can get sterile burn/ scald dressings instead of using things like clingfilm, we used them in my last position as we hot glued boxes, and burns were something that did happen.

No the employee should not be paying for the treatment, and yes burns should be included in the risk assessment.

wilco612  
#10 Posted : 04 March 2019 14:57:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wilco612

I agree that it should be in the risk assessment especially considering the environment.  They should be able to ask to see the RA. 

I can only check whether there was a first aider present to deal with the situation. I presume not due to the advice they were given.

It will be interesting to ask the questions and find out what happens further down the line.

Elfin Davy 09  
#11 Posted : 04 March 2019 16:00:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

Were any sausage rolls harmed in the making of the accident report ?  :-)

thanks 2 users thanked Elfin Davy 09 for this useful post.
Dave5705 on 04/03/2019(UTC), Jordinsladek89 on 14/03/2019(UTC)
ttxela  
#12 Posted : 04 March 2019 16:09:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ttxela

In answer to the questions;

- In a bakery, yes, the possibility of burns should be considered in a risk assessment.

- If the advice that was given (by a first aider or by someone in authority) was to go and buy something from Boots then the company should pay irrespective of whether that advice or the product bought was correct. Its hard to imagine the cost was significant!

Elfin Davy 09  
#13 Posted : 04 March 2019 16:58:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

Wilco612

You say the accident happened "in a well known bakery", but was it the bakery itself (ie the manufacturing site) or a shop ?  The reason for asking is that the arrangements are likely to differ significantly (even though arguably they shouldn't).  I would expect the main production site to have "bells and whistles" arrangements and these have probably been passed to their retail outlets in the form of a manual (that is probably gethering dust on a shelf somewhere).  I would expect the main site to have proper first aid cover on site, whereas the shops are likely to have a first aid kit (which somebody has maybe forgotten to replenish).  If the incident occurred at one of their retail outlets, then I can understand the accident response (even if I don't condone it).  If however the accident DID happen at the main production site, I'm with the others who have responded so far, their SHOULD have been something better in place than there appears to have been (both in terms of first aid AND risk assessment).

thanks 1 user thanked Elfin Davy 09 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 05/03/2019(UTC)
Dave5705  
#14 Posted : 04 March 2019 18:19:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Dave5705

Originally Posted by: Elfin Davy 09 Go to Quoted Post

Wilco612

You say the accident happened "in a well known bakery", but was it the bakery itself (ie the manufacturing site) or a shop ?  The reason for asking is that the arrangements are likely to differ significantly (even though arguably they shouldn't).  I would expect the main production site to have "bells and whistles" arrangements and these have probably been passed to their retail outlets in the form of a manual (that is probably gethering dust on a shelf somewhere).  I would expect the main site to have proper first aid cover on site, whereas the shops are likely to have a first aid kit (which somebody has maybe forgotten to replenish).  If the incident occurred at one of their retail outlets, then I can understand the accident response (even if I don't condone it).  If however the accident DID happen at the main production site, I'm with the others who have responded so far, their SHOULD have been something better in place than there appears to have been (both in terms of first aid AND risk assessment).

I'm assuming as the bakery has a Boots (other chemists are available) next door then it is a high st shop we are talking about. The description that it is 'well known' suggested it was one of a chain of many so a big chain, big company, and I would have thought we could have big expectations but you are absolutely right, it will be buried in a shed, in the back yard, next to the smoking shelter where the 'please wash your hands' sign used to be, which is now where the Manager has put her 'Employee of the Month! certificate.

Is there really a question over who pays for the cream? Made me smile that did! 

thanks 2 users thanked Dave5705 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 05/03/2019(UTC), toe on 06/03/2019(UTC)
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