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Refgizmo  
#1 Posted : 03 June 2019 09:16:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Refgizmo

In my 16 years, this one appears to have passed me by.

I am advised that when using Class M on site dust extraction (industrial vaccuum for want of a better description) it is considered to be an LEV system, therefore, is subject to 12 to 14 month thorough examinations.

This is stated in CIS69, however, the extraction we use is interchangable. It may be attached to a chop saw one minute, then a sander the next.

With different tool attachments being used, therefore, a lot of variables, how would one practically achieve a reliable thorough inspection on this particular arrangement?

I look forward to everyones comments,

Refgizmo

A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 03 June 2019 09:30:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

They should be checking that it achieves the appropriate level protection for each attachment  

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Refgizmo on 03/06/2019(UTC)
Refgizmo  
#3 Posted : 03 June 2019 11:34:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Refgizmo

Thanks.

Often the attachments are provided by the user, who may be a sub contractor.

I don't see, presuming the thorough inspection has to be carried out by a professional provider, all the attachments would be made available at the time.

There seems to be far too many variables to give any substance to an inspection report.

chris.packham  
#4 Posted : 03 June 2019 19:57:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

The main consideration with LEV is not the volume of air being removed (performance) as whether it is adequately removing the contamination (effectiveness).  So what you will need to do is to attach your vacuum device to each machine and test whether it is actually removing the contamination. This can often be tested by using a simple smoke tube test. If you need more PM me with your contact details and I will be happy to see how I can help

Chris

thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 04/06/2019(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 04 June 2019 08:37:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

When people test LEV often all they do is just measure the level of “suck” and if it is above some arbitrary number they say it has passed. This not what is required under COSHH. What they should be doing is establishing whether the LEV actually controls the risk airborne hazardous substance to the level that has been established as “safe” from the risk assessment.  As Chris has said, one of the most useful tools for getting a feel for that is a smoke tube perhaps combined with some form of back lighting.  Each tool will work differently and so you need to look at each tool that can be used with the LEV.

chris.packham  
#6 Posted : 04 June 2019 08:59:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

For anyone interested in LEV there is an excellent guide to the basic printiples on the HSE website.

Chris

PIKEMAN  
#7 Posted : 04 June 2019 09:10:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

Very interesting thread. I would argue that such devices are not neccssarily a control to keep under the WEL, but are a general control, unlike "normal" LEV. I would point out that use of smoke devices does not MEASURE performance and is a qualitative and not quantitative, test, and therefore of limited use.

chris.packham  
#8 Posted : 04 June 2019 13:01:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

I find the smoke test invaluable. But then I am not interested measurement, i.e. in whether the LEV meets the requirement for the WEL since my interest is in airborne contact dermatitis where the WEL is not relevant. Indeed, there are case studies which demonstrate that airborne contact dermatitis can be triggered by levels of contamination below the WEL. The smoke test, if sensibly applied, will provide me with information as to whether the design of the LEV capture system is actually working.

John Elder  
#9 Posted : 01 July 2019 15:20:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Elder

The smoke test is more suited to Fume and vapour extraction LEV Systems and not Dust Extraction LEV Systems.

Dust particles which behave differently and are ejected at velocity are not representive to smoke being caputured.

The test carried out in these situations to prove effective capture is a Tyndall Lamp test which shows the effect of the capture of a dust cloud and not a smoke test.

chris.packham  
#10 Posted : 01 July 2019 15:35:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

John

My omission. For dust where I needed a precise indication for particulate Iwould also use a Tyndall beam lamp. However, in my work I mainly find that I am looking at a very basic indication that the LEV system is not even moving air into the duct in the way in which the employer imagined it was and if this is the case then it would not be much use with dust either. It gets them started at appreciating that it is not simply a matter of purchasing an off the shelf extraction unit without giving any consideration to the design of the capture system.

thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 02/07/2019(UTC)
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