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MrBrightside  
#1 Posted : 04 June 2019 13:38:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrBrightside

Hi All,

As part of my ongoing quest to change the way we currently do Health & Safety by looking our processes and formats. I'm looking at the good old Risk Assessment document.

We have the standard: hazard, who’s at risk, controls in place, risk rating, any other controls required and they are equipment or activity based. All very standard and pretty much the same format most people use to some degree.

So I want to get more of a flow to the process which might engage people more and help when completing them. I often work backwards and do the SSOW first as this tends to identify the hazards and controls more organically. My thought then went to, why not do this in the risk assessment (stay with me here) and I have come up with template that goes along these lines:

Step, Process, who will be at risk, what hazards will they be exposed to, what controls are in place.

The plan is that for the risk assessment you are assessing each step of the process and identifying the hazards and controls for that step. So rather than identifying Manual Handling as a hazard for the whole assessment, you might only identify it for step 1 and 6 of the process and the controls for each part might be different as dictated by the activity for that step.

It’s a work in progress and the end goal is to help Managers identify hazards and controls easier when doing risk assessments.

Thoughts, feelings, why am I making life harder for myself etc

jmaclaughlin  
#2 Posted : 04 June 2019 14:05:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jmaclaughlin

I think we may be already doing this in the construction/railway industry.

We have say 10 generic RA covering things Manual handling, HAVs etc

Then do daily briefing sheet, listing the tasks for the day, each task has associated RA, control measures, permits, tools, materials, competencies required etc.

Not sure the order in which you do them has that much impact as each task has it's own SSOW.

thanks 1 user thanked jmaclaughlin for this useful post.
MrBrightside on 04/06/2019(UTC)
SBH  
#3 Posted : 04 June 2019 14:19:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

Seems quite similar to a fault tree analysis in the approach

SBH

thanks 1 user thanked SBH for this useful post.
MrBrightside on 04/06/2019(UTC)
MrBrightside  
#4 Posted : 04 June 2019 14:29:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrBrightside

Originally Posted by: jmaclaughlin Go to Quoted Post

Then do daily briefing sheet, listing the tasks for the day, each task has associated RA, control measures, permits, tools, materials, competencies required etc.

Not sure the order in which you do them has that much impact as each task has it's own SSOW.

This is what I am thinking but this is done at the risk assessment stage. I will do some Googling.

Kate  
#5 Posted : 04 June 2019 17:39:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Sounds like "Job Safety Analysis" to me.  And yes it can be a useful approach.

thanks 3 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
DHeptinstall on 05/06/2019(UTC), SJP on 05/06/2019(UTC), MrBrightside on 06/06/2019(UTC)
Wozza.s  
#6 Posted : 04 June 2019 19:23:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Wozza.s

Do you use Kinney Risk Assessments they can be used to identify 1 specific risk at a time ?

regards,

Wozza

thanks 1 user thanked Wozza.s for this useful post.
MrBrightside on 06/06/2019(UTC)
Hsquared14  
#7 Posted : 05 June 2019 09:36:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

Sounds like "Job Safety Analysis" to me.  And yes it can be a useful approach.

Sounds like Job Safety Analysis to me too - goes to show there is nothing new.....  but it is an approach that has largely been overlooked in favour of the approach described by the HSE which to my mind lacks imagination and doesn't give people the essential cues to think about what could go wrong, why it could go wrong and what will happen if it goes wrong!

thanks 2 users thanked Hsquared14 for this useful post.
SJP on 05/06/2019(UTC), MrBrightside on 06/06/2019(UTC)
RayRapp  
#8 Posted : 05 June 2019 11:03:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

On the rare occassions I have done a SSOW i.e. method statement, I have always done the task first followed by the associated RA. I could never see the logic in doing RAs first. That said, most RAs are picked from a generic suite and often resemeble the task very poorly - paper safety!  

thanks 2 users thanked RayRapp for this useful post.
MrBrightside on 06/06/2019(UTC), aud on 24/07/2019(UTC)
SammyK  
#9 Posted : 22 July 2019 15:18:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SammyK

Does anyone else do a Workplace Risk Assessment (For the building) and a Task Based Risk Assessment (for the job) we do this at my place of work and my previous employer and have found it along with the workforce that it worls very well.

Acorns  
#10 Posted : 22 July 2019 21:39:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Acorns

Originally Posted by: Hsquared14 Go to Quoted Post

Sounds like Job Safety Analysis to me too - goes to show there is nothing new.....  but it is an approach that has largely been overlooked in favour of the approach described by the HSE which to my mind lacks imagination and doesn't give people the essential cues to think about what could go wrong, why it could go wrong and what will happen if it goes wrong!

Nicely put - showing a typical HSE basewd RA to many empoloyees may as well be a page of algebra, needing an interpretation as to ewhat it means to them.  defeats the notion that many have where they require the RA to be communciated to their employees whcih usally means simply giving them a copy of a 5x5 RA
RayRapp  
#11 Posted : 23 July 2019 08:35:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Following Acorn's post, I think the problem is that RAs have sometimes been a substitute for proper training and to a lesser extent, supervision. Writing something on a piece of paper is not getting the job done safely. A method statement, or job analysis, whatever you want to call it is fine for explaining how the job should be done safely. Adding a list of RAs to the SSoW and a matrix is frankly a complete waste of time, effort and paper.

Marc Owen  
#12 Posted : 23 July 2019 09:00:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Marc Owen

Reads like FMEA to me, Job task analysis in the form of an Event tree for example. Good pratice and possitve approach

The task broken down into steps with identified hazards within each step, Then applying the priciples of prevention working towards suitable corrective measures.

hilary  
#13 Posted : 23 July 2019 09:01:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

To be honest, I've always done my risk assessments by area and function rather than hazard.  In an area I will list the processes in detail, the hazards, the competence of employees, the control measures and any action required to make processes safer.  The assessment runs the full gamut of risks and hazards present in that area.  I thought everyone did it like this ...

thanks 1 user thanked hilary for this useful post.
aud on 24/07/2019(UTC)
biker1  
#14 Posted : 23 July 2019 09:02:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I have always thought that the biggest flaw in the HSE 5 steps approach (apart from it being over-simplified, and not actually implementing the controls) is that it starts at the wrong place, i.e. identifying the hazard. How can you do this until you have identified what it is you are doing? BS8800 got it right, and provided a much better coverage of risk assessment.

Like other things, the HSE approach seems to be 'if you haven't got anything better, use this'. They adopted the same approach to writing an OSH policy, with 'Stating Your Business', which was basically fill in the blanks, and hey presto you have a policy.

As regards a SSoW, I think the logical approach is to carry out a task analysis, to identify what it is you do, risk assess the steps of this, then draft the SSoW on the basis of this.

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