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PRINCESSLAUREL  
#1 Posted : 30 August 2019 06:07:33(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
PRINCESSLAUREL

Hi, I've been approached by a staff member who says 'her friend's husband works in emissions testing' and he's told her that the office she works in could have high levels of CO2 due to the number of staff breathing out and we should have it tested.

It's a small office with a lot of staff who are in and out all day, rarely are they all in together, but 2/3 weeks per year their work changes and they spend more time there, during which time a few of them feel lathargic or headachy.  They do not have to stay in this area, there are lots of other rooms with computers they can break out to.

Has anyone heard of carrying out CO2 tests in offices?  I suspect he means that it could be an issue if there was plant machinery nearby (which there isn't) and that it's a misquote, but I don't want to dismiss their concerns out of hand or not carry out a test that I am legally obliged to do.

Also, if I do have to do this, how do I go about it?

Thanks for any thoughts or information.

paul.skyrme  
#2 Posted : 30 August 2019 07:22:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

CO or CO2, both are products of combustion, CO has a lot more impact at lower concentrations than CO2.

Breathing would be CO2, but surely the offices are not so well sealed that you are not getting enough air changes?

That would be my first port of call is to see what the natural ventilation and air changes are.

I don’t see what machinery creates CO2, apart from combustion appliances, laser printers and photocopiers IIRC are Ozone producers, not CO2.

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PRINCESSLAUREL on 30/08/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 30 August 2019 07:28:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Quick bit of research as this sounded like a heresay reveals

EH40 lists a WEL for CO2 at 5,000 ppm TWA / 15,000 ppm STEL and falls under COSHH http://www.hse.gov.uk/carboncapture/carbondioxide.htm

There are also many articles citing that normally an office will be @ 1,000 ppm but that productivity starts to decline once levels raise above 2,000 ppm

Then you spot a report on a more recent piece of research and draw a conclusion to bananana plants aiding a better nights sleep https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/08/indoor-carbon-dioxide-levels-could-be-a-health-hazard-scientists-warn

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
PRINCESSLAUREL on 30/08/2019(UTC), PRINCESSLAUREL on 30/08/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 30 August 2019 07:28:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Quick bit of research as this sounded like a heresay reveals

EH40 lists a WEL for CO2 at 5,000 ppm TWA / 15,000 ppm STEL and falls under COSHH http://www.hse.gov.uk/carboncapture/carbondioxide.htm

There are also many articles citing that normally an office will be @ 1,000 ppm but that productivity starts to decline once levels raise above 2,000 ppm

Then you spot a report on a more recent piece of research and draw a conclusion to bananana plants aiding a better nights sleep https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/08/indoor-carbon-dioxide-levels-could-be-a-health-hazard-scientists-warn

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
PRINCESSLAUREL on 30/08/2019(UTC), PRINCESSLAUREL on 30/08/2019(UTC)
stevedm  
#5 Posted : 30 August 2019 07:47:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Sounds more like the testing guy is fishing for work...unless you work in a sealed room with all this staff there is no problem..people expire 16% oxygen as well as CO2 etc in every breath...that why giving 2 breaths in CPR works...

EH40 deals with 100% CO2....the CO2 exhaled on breath is about 5% and a mixture of this and other gases.

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PRINCESSLAUREL on 30/08/2019(UTC), A Kurdziel on 02/09/2019(UTC)
stevedm  
#6 Posted : 30 August 2019 08:35:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

after coffee correction 15-18% CO2 in exhaled breath..

thanks 1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
PRINCESSLAUREL on 30/08/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 30 August 2019 09:59:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

EH40 deals with 100% CO2....

EH 40 has its equivalence with a Community Exposure Limit (TWA) of 5,000 ppm or 9,000 mg/m3

Air Liquide list 1.832Kg of Carbon Dioxide giving a volume of one cubic metre at 21C & 1 atmosphere - or 204 times the WEL

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
PRINCESSLAUREL on 30/08/2019(UTC), PRINCESSLAUREL on 30/08/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 30 August 2019 09:59:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

EH40 deals with 100% CO2....

EH 40 has its equivalence with a Community Exposure Limit (TWA) of 5,000 ppm or 9,000 mg/m3

Air Liquide list 1.832Kg of Carbon Dioxide giving a volume of one cubic metre at 21C & 1 atmosphere - or 204 times the WEL

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
PRINCESSLAUREL on 30/08/2019(UTC), PRINCESSLAUREL on 30/08/2019(UTC)
stevedm  
#9 Posted : 01 September 2019 11:40:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

still talking about pure CO2 not a mixture...worked for both BOC and Air Liquide for 15 years...

Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 02 September 2019 13:57:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 02 September 2019 13:57:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

A Kurdziel  
#12 Posted : 02 September 2019 14:44:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

According to the HSE (who might know thing or two) carbon dioxide exists in the normal atmosphere at a level of about 0.037%, which is 370 ppm. According to EH40 the Long-term exposure limit (8-hr reference period) is 5000 ppm. This is averaged over an eight hour shift so the level can be safely over 5000 ppm for short periods. The short-term exposure limit (15 minute reference period) is 15000 ppm. In effect this means that the level should never go above this number.  So to be hazardous the level of carbon dioxide would need to go over 30 times the normal level.  Such an increase would occur (according to the HSE) in confined spaces such as tanks, sumps or cellars. It is also possible for CO2 to accumulate in trenches or depressions outside following leaks and this is more likely to occur following a pressurised release where the released CO2 is colder than the surrounding air.  This is all as the result of a sudden release of pure gas, for example in a brewery. It is difficult to image a scenario where people in an office could generate so much CO2, simply through normal respiration even if the room was totally air tight.  

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SJP on 03/09/2019(UTC)
Benz3ne  
#13 Posted : 03 September 2019 13:14:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Benz3ne

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

after coffee correction 15-18% CO2 in exhaled breath..

I've always been under the impression is approx 0.04% CO2 breathed in, 4% breathed out (approximately, of course).

To OP: Either way, I don't imagine a busy office to have much issue with CO2 unless it was air-tight, or if there was a wood burning stove installed in the corner. In this case, open a window and it should resolve the 'issue' quickly.

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