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ivorheadache  
#1 Posted : 30 August 2019 12:16:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ivorheadache

Afternoon all.  We are in the process of risk assessing placing cash trays into safes that can only be at floor level (bolted to the floor for security). It has been suggested that the ‘Knights position’  is used. I was informed by a colleague that when they went through retained fire-fighting training, they was trained up how to use the knights Position which is effectively going down on one knee when positioning an item at arms-length.

A quick look around Google did not yield any results. I was wondering if anyone else has come across this and if anyone is actually using it. I would like to find some guidance we use for training and a handout.

Any help would be really appreciated. Thanks.

Mark-W  
#2 Posted : 30 August 2019 12:57:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

ivorheadache  
#3 Posted : 30 August 2019 13:11:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ivorheadache

Thanks Mark. I did see this image, but was not sure if this was a recognised technique as was not from the HSE. All the HSE guidance points to the squat lift so I'm not really that confident that this is good advice. Especially as we have had MH claims in the past. Just really wanted to know yours (and others) thoughts.

Hsquared14  
#4 Posted : 30 August 2019 13:16:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

I thought that squatting wasn't recommended these days due to the stress on the knees?  Where ergonomics is concerned it wouldn't be the only place that the HSE was behind the latest thinking.

CptBeaky  
#5 Posted : 30 August 2019 13:22:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

I always thought squatting was a bit ambitious for anybody beyond the age of about 35. Long gone are my slut dropping days, now I need a chair to help get back up!

thanks 2 users thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 02/09/2019(UTC), Natasha.Graham on 02/09/2019(UTC)
peter gotch  
#6 Posted : 31 August 2019 11:09:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Ivorheadache, in these days of ever increasing cashless transactions, the task is going to be heavily (no pun intended) dependent on the weight of the tray and its contents, but may be you need to ask a competent ergonomist for input.

But possibly you might consider whether it's pragmatic to raise the safe by e.g. putting it on a plinth and/or changing the cash tray so that the overall weight is smaller.

John D C  
#7 Posted : 31 August 2019 11:50:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John D C

The infrequent use of the knights position provides good positioning for jobs at low level without causing any harm to the knee. Provided the back is kept in a natural curve then I don't see any problem. I was taught this some years ago by a very good expert and have not found any problem with it. Suspect I am a lot older than others who replied and I can still get up from kneeling without a problem!!!
Hsquared14  
#8 Posted : 02 September 2019 09:20:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post

I always thought squatting was a bit ambitious for anybody beyond the age of about 35. Long gone are my slut dropping days, now I need a chair to help get back up!

We sent our Training Team Leader on a City and Guilds Manual Handling Train the Trainer course and one of the things to come out of it was that squatting was not ergonomically acceptable as it puts too much strain on the knees and the back when you struggle to get up out of the squat.  Single knee kneeling is more acceptable so long as no one doing it has pre-existing knee problems. 

On a point of information if I dropped to a squat it would take more than a chair to get me back up - probably a small crane!!

A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 02 September 2019 09:37:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

You need to do the basic TILE risk assessment. Look at the tray-how heavy is it likely to be and how easy is it to manoeuvre into the safe?  How often will this task be performed- at the end of the shift on several times a day?  Finally who will be doing the task, some young whippersnapper or some older less flexible person?

How practical is it to raise the safe?   Do you need cash anyway?

As in most things there is no definitive answer, only what works best for you given you circumstances 

ivorheadache  
#10 Posted : 03 September 2019 15:59:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ivorheadache

once again guys you give me lots to consider. We are talking here a building society so moving the safe would be impracticle as well as a security risk (must be bolted to the floor). We've done the TILE/LITE assessment and agree that this should only be carried out by abled staff (know the feeling of struggling to get off the floor :( )

Good point about staff with damaged knees. We will add it in to the assessment.

Cheers.

Dave5705  
#11 Posted : 04 September 2019 05:27:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Dave5705

You could look into having roller bearing drawers fitted to the safes, they pull out to allow the load to be dropped vertically and slid into place. Less reaching, less strain. Just a thought.

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