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Mersey  
#1 Posted : 17 September 2019 14:46:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mersey

I've always been of the opinion that any FLT attachment is subject to a thorough inspection either 6 monthly or 12 monthly.

I've just had a disagreement about this with a production manager. They have several fabricated vessels on a purpose built skid with purpose built slots for Forks to go into, occasionally these vessels are lifted so that they can be drained into another larger vessel by gravity.

I could not see any CE mark on the vessel or thorough inspection stickers and they are not part of the LOLER checks.

The argument came back as " Why does they check every pallet before they lift a product , why aren't pallets part of thorough inspections?"

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 17 September 2019 15:06:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Which regulations are you anticipating a CE mark under? If they were sealed then possibly the Simple Pressure Vessels Directive may apply otherwise they would be part of a machinery system.

Your description of use is more akin to Intermediate Bulk Containers which under ADR would be subject to periodic inspection at 2.5 & 5 yearly intervals.

Just because something can be moved by FLT does not necessarily place it under LOLER requirements.

Separate rules exist regarding the design and loading of pallets (they should at minimum be visually inspected for damage before use).

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Mersey on 17/09/2019(UTC), Mersey on 17/09/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 17 September 2019 15:06:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Which regulations are you anticipating a CE mark under? If they were sealed then possibly the Simple Pressure Vessels Directive may apply otherwise they would be part of a machinery system.

Your description of use is more akin to Intermediate Bulk Containers which under ADR would be subject to periodic inspection at 2.5 & 5 yearly intervals.

Just because something can be moved by FLT does not necessarily place it under LOLER requirements.

Separate rules exist regarding the design and loading of pallets (they should at minimum be visually inspected for damage before use).

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Mersey on 17/09/2019(UTC), Mersey on 17/09/2019(UTC)
Mersey  
#4 Posted : 17 September 2019 15:15:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mersey

I assumed because it has a SWL on it and it's made to lift a maximum known weight for a specific job then LOLER would kick in ?

It certainly doesn't look like an IBC , its stainless steel in construction (not sealed) looks like a cone shaped vessel sitting on a platform, with suporting struts 

I'm not sure how to imbed a photograph on this system as it would be easier to explain., but I do appreciate the input Roundtiut

Cheers

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 17 September 2019 15:25:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg422.pdf Page 2 - table 1 lists what should be included followed by exemptions including items that may be considered part of the load such as pallets

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 17 September 2019 15:25:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg422.pdf Page 2 - table 1 lists what should be included followed by exemptions including items that may be considered part of the load such as pallets

godscrasher  
#7 Posted : 18 September 2019 16:32:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
godscrasher

If the vessel has been fitted with fork slots for the purpose of lifting it, then because this vessel is the 'load' there's no requirement for it to have a thorough examination. 

It's like lifting a pallet, the pallet is the load, not the attachment.

thanks 1 user thanked godscrasher for this useful post.
Mersey on 19/09/2019(UTC)
Svick1984  
#8 Posted : 19 September 2019 06:44:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Just because something can be moved by FLT does not necessarily place it under LOLER requirements.

Would you also apply this to bins, skips, stillages etc? I only ask because it's something I've wondered about before; we store waste glass in cullet bins and then transport them outside using a forklift truck or load stillages onto a vehicle using a FLT, in both scenarios where there is - for want of a better description - an 'aperture' for the forks to fit and lift. Would you consider them an incidental aspect of the main function and therefore, wouldn't? If so, I'm assuming a visual inspection is necessary but not a TE? Sorry for hijacking the thread.

godscrasher  
#9 Posted : 19 September 2019 07:05:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
godscrasher

Originally Posted by: Svick1984 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Just because something can be moved by FLT does not necessarily place it under LOLER requirements.

Would you also apply this to bins, skips, stillages etc? I only ask because it's something I've wondered about before; we store waste glass in cullet bins and then transport them outside using a forklift truck or load stillages onto a vehicle using a FLT, in both scenarios where there is - for want of a better description - an 'aperture' for the forks to fit and lift. Would you consider them an incidental aspect of the main function and therefore, wouldn't? If so, I'm assuming a visual inspection is necessary but not a TE? Sorry for hijacking the thread.


As I've mentioned above, the object you're lifting is the 'load' and not part of the lifting equipment or accessory. Your bins will have been made for the purpose of having material in them to a certain weight and they are the load (They don't need CE marked and there are no defined standards applicable to them). This is where PUWER kicks in where you will need to carry out reasonable and appropriate inspections of the equipment (load) to ensure it isn't damaged. 

thanks 2 users thanked godscrasher for this useful post.
Svick1984 on 19/09/2019(UTC), Mersey on 19/09/2019(UTC)
Svick1984  
#10 Posted : 19 September 2019 07:33:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: godscrasher Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Svick1984 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Just because something can be moved by FLT does not necessarily place it under LOLER requirements.

Would you also apply this to bins, skips, stillages etc? I only ask because it's something I've wondered about before; we store waste glass in cullet bins and then transport them outside using a forklift truck or load stillages onto a vehicle using a FLT, in both scenarios where there is - for want of a better description - an 'aperture' for the forks to fit and lift. Would you consider them an incidental aspect of the main function and therefore, wouldn't? If so, I'm assuming a visual inspection is necessary but not a TE? Sorry for hijacking the thread.


As I've mentioned above, the object you're lifting is the 'load' and not part of the lifting equipment or accessory. Your bins will have been made for the purpose of having material in them to a certain weight and they are the load (They don't need CE marked and there are no defined standards applicable to them). This is where PUWER kicks in where you will need to carry out reasonable and appropriate inspections of the equipment (load) to ensure it isn't damaged. 

Well, I'm an idiot because I didn't read through all the comments (I stopped when I read Roundtuit's first comment) so I feel a bit embarassed now (especially as he linked the TE guide after, doh!); that'll teach me. With that definition, I'm applying that to the stillages too (as they are supporting the load as opposed to lifting it) so I believe you've answered my question; many thanks for your help.

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