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kmason83  
#1 Posted : 20 September 2019 08:13:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kmason83

I have been tasked with risk assessing a concealed entrance with a view to supporting a mirror request which has been knocked back by the local authority. The local authority stating that casualty rate is too low to take action, previous site occupants have had no issues for 35 years and there is oppertunity to move back boundry walls, which inidently would provide no real assitance as the entrance/exit is at the end of a oncoming blind bend and a BT pole also sits right in the way also. Entrance /exit can't be moved either there isn't room. So my issue is I can dig around in the books and make consideration of passing traffic taking into considertaion the neraby vistor attraction, size of the village etc, but is anyone experianced with this who may be able to give me any pointers? This is only cars coming out by the way no trucks or anything and not a massive amount of cars either but regular comings and goings. 

A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 20 September 2019 08:30:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Don’t hold your breath!

At worked at a site and there was a junction of a main road (country road speed limit 60 mph, and traffic was doing that at least as it was dead straight). This was the main route into an 80 acre site with at least 500 people working there. The junction suffered several accidents a year and at least one fatality in the 18 years I was there. The Highways Authority always had an excuse not to do anything but it basically boiled down to “we don’t have any money in the budget this year” or “the road will be upgraded to a dual carriageway soon and we’ll sort it out then”.  They never did.   

 

CptBeaky  
#3 Posted : 20 September 2019 08:52:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

I concur. We have an entrance that opens out onto a 30mph speed limited zone, with double yellow lines either side of the junction. Vehicles regularly speed in excess of 50mph down the road, compounded by the fact that everyone ignores the double yellow lines means that it is squeaky bum time every evening.

I asked for traffic calming measure, a mirror, traffic wardens popping down our estate etc. No matter what I asked I was always given a knock back. I suggested I put up my own mirror/signs and was told it is not my property and as such it would be illegal.

I resorted to sourcing some fake parking ticket bags and putti ng passive agressive notes in them on the illegally parked cars. (very English I know!). It worked for a time.

stevedm  
#4 Posted : 20 September 2019 11:51:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

...as others have said don't hold your breath the only way I have solved it in the past is by stomping up the money ourselves....however what you may find useful is this calcuator to assist in your scenario calcuation...

https://www.crashmap.co.uk/Search

http://www.greatrix.co.uk/AICalculator.html 

thanks 1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
Hsquared14 on 23/09/2019(UTC)
achrn  
#5 Posted : 20 September 2019 13:37:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

We have a very blind exit from an underground car park up a curving ramp onto a street, and we've tried and failed to get a mirror.  We’ve had a few collisions (though all low speed, fortunately, so while there’s been bent metal we haven’t had any significant injuries).   We said we'd pay all the costs and have failed. 

We did discuss with the owner of the opposite property putting one inside their boundary (again, we'd pay), and they were amenable to that but the sightlines don't work - we really need it in (or over) the footway opposite, and can't get the authority to agree it.

A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 20 September 2019 13:39:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Follow up to what SteveM said: we at one point felt sorry for the highways authority in question when they said they had no money so we offered them some of our cash (we were a government agency so it all came from the same pot) but we were then told that any effective measures (eg a roundabout)  would “slow down the flow of traffic and increase the likelihood of an accident”. Lost sympathy after that!

peter gotch  
#7 Posted : 21 September 2019 13:02:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Need to either offer to fund at least part of this measure and/or get a competent road safety auditor to do a report showing how the risk has increased over 35 years. That report would cost more than a mirror.

CptBeaky  
#8 Posted : 23 September 2019 09:06:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

I got this reply when asking for controls.

Quote:

I should mention that as the road is streetlit, it is automatically a 30mph speed limit unless there are repeater signs to the contrary (eg in a 40mph limit).  All drivers should be aware of this.  We are not legally permitted to add repeater signs for a 30mph limit where there are streetlights.   

With regard to mirrors on the highway, advice from Department for Transport is that these should not be allowed on the highway.  There are a number of risks attached to them:

  • The image created by a mirror is deceptive and the distortion of that image can lead a driver to believe that an approaching vehicle is straight ahead when it is, in fact, round a corner.
  • It is very difficult to judge the speed of an approaching vehicle from the reflected image.
  • Drivers may concentrate on the image in the mirror and miss seeing a nearby pedestrian or cyclist.
  • There can be problems with glare from daytime sunlight or headlights at night.
  • Mirrors can be subject to vandalism and are affected by wear and tear, rain condensation, frost and snow.
  • Even a minor misalignment can result in a distortion of the image even to the extent of giving no image of an approaching vehicle.

Therefore, based on this advice, we do not  authorise mirrors on the highway. 

thanks 1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 23/09/2019(UTC)
Acorns  
#9 Posted : 23 September 2019 18:46:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Acorns

I note in the OP it says the entrance is only used by cars.  Does that mean no vans or LGVs use the site or that vans /LGVs use a different entrance.  I'd be amazed if LGVs NEVER use an entrance, even if its heating oil, refuse collection or similar.  So, if there is a second entrance, the solution is given to you and solves your risk assessment- Block this route and make all vehicles use that  alternative entry/exit route.  If the second entrance/exit is available then failing to use that would be defeating your risk assessment at the first level (Removing the hazard)

thanks 1 user thanked Acorns for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 24/09/2019(UTC)
achrn  
#10 Posted : 24 September 2019 08:34:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: AcornsConsult Go to Quoted Post

I note in the OP it says the entrance is only used by cars.  Does that mean no vans or LGVs use the site or that vans /LGVs use a different entrance.  I'd be amazed if LGVs NEVER use an entrance, even if its heating oil, refuse collection or similar.

Well, I'm not the OP, but our entrance where we can't get a mirror never has LGVs use it, on account of how it is a right-angle turn into the entrance from a narrow road (two cars can't pass without one going up the pavement) to a tight curving ramp going down into a basement.  We have had someone get a short not-high-top Transit down it, but be amazed! no LGV ever uses that entrance. 

We don't use heating oil.  The refuse collection is done by a vehicle that stops in the street.  All deliveries are done by vehicles that stop in the street.

kmason83  
#11 Posted : 24 September 2019 09:52:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kmason83

Thanks everyone for your help and discusion on this, to reply to one question, no LGV's at all no alternative entrance it is cars only there is one small van a VW Caddy that the biggest thing in and out. 

I think your right the risk assessment is not going to help things at all but you do get pressed on these things sometimes and the plan is to offer this along with an offer of full cost cover unfortunatly now the authority have completely shut down conversation so the local MP has agreed to help as they believe it to be dangerous. I have read of some councils overturning descions so we will see. 

The entrance is on the nearside and while it is 30mph it is  aroad running thorugh a tiny village double yellows  double solid white lines in the middle. No one ever does 30 around there and traffic is not so low volume though owing to the nearby national trust property and the increase in the amount of events on the nearby farm. 

I am going to continue to fight as I hate the fact that not enough poeple have died yet is on the list of reasons for not allowing. Thanks so much everyone this has been realy insightful and helpful. 

Acorns  
#12 Posted : 24 September 2019 10:11:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Acorns

Originally Posted by: achrn Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AcornsConsult Go to Quoted Post

I note in the OP it says the entrance is only used by cars.  Does that mean no vans or LGVs use the site or that vans /LGVs use a different entrance.  I'd be amazed if LGVs NEVER use an entrance, even if its heating oil, refuse collection or similar.

Well, I'm not the OP, but our entrance where we can't get a mirror never has LGVs use it, on account of how it is a right-angle turn into the entrance from a narrow road (two cars can't pass without one going up the pavement) to a tight curving ramp going down into a basement.  We have had someone get a short not-high-top Transit down it, but be amazed! no LGV ever uses that entrance. 

We don't use heating oil.  The refuse collection is done by a vehicle that stops in the street.  All deliveries are done by vehicles that stop in the street.

That the vehicles park on the road kinda negates the issue of the OP.  My comment was to outline options on solving the issue - that if there is / was a 2nd entrance, then continuing to use the current one would be open to severe criticism.  We now have a bit more info on the sceanrio, in that its a 30mph limit with the suggestion that of non-compliance.  Now that is a comopletely different idea and issue to deal with that may actually help the original one.  ​​​​​​​
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