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thunderchild  
#1 Posted : 14 October 2019 07:44:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Morning all,

Was having a discussion on Friday regarding disposable face masks. Now I've always believed that you have to be 100% shaven for the seal to be intact (not an issue for me being of the female persuasion....apart from that odd dark moostache hair! LOL).

Now, I was informed by a colleague that if you have a goatee and have a 100% smooth skin around it then a disposable face mask is fine to use.

Has anyone come across this? All the guidance says clean shaven which I take to be the whole face???

Thanks in advance

CptBeaky  
#2 Posted : 14 October 2019 08:14:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

I think what your colleague is suggesting is that if the entire area that is in contact with the mask is shaven it creates a good seal. Therefore, in theory, you could have any facial hair either inside the mask, or outside. As long as it doesn't interfere with the seal it should also work fine. I would think that a goatee would be too much, however a soul patch might be small enough.

The idea seems sound. In practice, however, it really depends on the thickness of that facial hair. The only certain way to know is to do a face fit test. 

TommyH  
#3 Posted : 14 October 2019 08:38:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
TommyH

I carry out Face-Fit testing regularly.  Goatees are fine so long as they are within the seal of the mask.  I always know when a pass is imminent by asking the subject to cup the valve of the mask with their hand then inhale.  if the mask strongly seals onto their face then you can be sure of a good seal.

Tom

descarte8  
#4 Posted : 14 October 2019 10:49:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
descarte8

Try the following guidance here:

www.surehire.ca/assets/53e27f294f720a2ba700006c/Annex_M___Facial_Hair_Guidelines.pdf

Taken from the Technical Committee on Selection, Care, and Use of Respirators Subcommittee on Z94.4

It has a very good section on the different styles and types of facial hair and impacts upon the seal, point is some types may be acceptable, but there are a few other considerations other than style (eg. length) which could affect the mask (not just seal but any exhalation valves for example).

Des

Kate  
#5 Posted : 17 October 2019 08:54:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

"Clean shaven in the area of the seal" has always been my understanding.  If it's not under the seal, it won't affect the seal.

A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 17 October 2019 09:23:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

The issue surely is not if you can pass a face fit test with a goatee or ‘tache but whether when they use the mask for real they maintain that level of facial fungus or do they allow it to spread a bit or if they are a bit careless putting on the mask that day and the mask does not align with fleshy area of the face. If you say clean shaven that’s clear rather than it must be kept to the length as the last test + 5 mm of hair which is difficult to police.

thanks 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 18/10/2019(UTC), jwk on 22/10/2019(UTC)
fiesta  
#7 Posted : 17 October 2019 14:57:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fiesta

I agree with A Kurdziel.

Passing the FF test is only one part of it.
We work in contracting and our operatives are often out all week.
They may well be clean shaven on Monday morning, with or without a goatee, but its highly unlikely they will be come friday.

Andy

niluf001  
#8 Posted : 23 October 2019 08:08:24(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
niluf001

I have came across similar sorts of issue and I am kind of new to this area. If a person is fit tested clean shaven, later on someday the person has got stubble (couldn't shave on that day or for couple of days), the fit tested respirator won't give proper seal, however, what does that person would do in that situation would he still be using the respirator or is there any alternative solution. Its very common that some of the operatives are not clean shaven on regular workdays. If they need to do drilling or sanding or grinding for a short period of time what is the solution for it.

CptBeaky  
#9 Posted : 23 October 2019 08:18:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

It comes back to a comment someone made a few weeks back. Should we ever rely on these sorts of face masks? They seem to be doomed to failure from the outset. The seal is broken so easily, and so frequently that they could just be putting workforces at more risk, as they offer a false sense of security. It is why LEV has to always be the better option.

thanks 1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 23/10/2019(UTC)
craigroberts76  
#10 Posted : 24 October 2019 08:04:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
craigroberts76

We have a similar issue which I'm trying to sort out.  Basically every tech is face fitted and passed, (eve with goatees as it doesnt interfere with masks).  The tech work across the whole of the UK so cannot be monitored daily by us but they are given training on whats expected and they need to report back any changes.  The issue we have is that historically some techs have been allowed to grow more than allowed as HR says that theres a risk of "discrimination" claims as advised by HR company we use.  Now I'm trying to fix this problem and its causing big problems from techs who have been with the company for over 2 years.

My Stance is suck it up, fashion should not over rule H&S but HR see it differently,

CptBeaky  
#11 Posted : 24 October 2019 08:33:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Originally Posted by: craigroberts76 Go to Quoted Post

My Stance is suck it up, fashion should not over rule H&S but HR see it differently,


Thes issue is not just a fashion one. I grow stubble at a ridiculous rate. By the afternoon I would not have a good seal. You are then also insisting i shave everyday, before I come to work (devil's advocate here). I have eczema. Shaving regularly with a blade causes me serious irritation, so I tend to just use clippers set to their lowest level.

Either of these issues on their own would be enough for me to question whether this sort of mask is the right one for me. Positive pressure masks are a much better solution, but the cost is prohibitive. 

A Kurdziel  
#12 Posted : 24 October 2019 08:38:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Craig, has your HR department decided that being a fashion victim is a protected characteristic?

craigroberts76  
#13 Posted : 24 October 2019 09:07:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
craigroberts76

its def a style thing rather than a skin condition issue, I'm working with the company to try and get a solution but its like running in treacle.  The HR company we use is peninsula, so not a small company.

they have to wear fitted masks as they are using sprays from cans or HVLP spraying, and there are about 65 of them across the country.

sibob  
#14 Posted : 24 October 2019 09:15:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sibob

I dont really subscribe to the HR issue.  Under section 7 employees have a duty to cooperate (although i appriecate thats a harsh stance)

the other issue i have with facefits and particuly dispossable mask is are they fitted the same afeter the ff has been carried out.  i thinking about the masks with nose clips on. Surely for the ff to be affective the nose piece has to be ft the same everytme

craigroberts76  
#15 Posted : 24 October 2019 09:43:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
craigroberts76

Originally Posted by: sibob Go to Quoted Post

I dont really subscribe to the HR issue.  Under section 7 employees have a duty to cooperate (although i appriecate thats a harsh stance)


No i agree, i'm harsh too but it has to be fair across the company and thats part of the problem, the older techs have got a way with it and the newer ones are now under strict control.

Roundtuit  
#16 Posted : 24 October 2019 10:12:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Co-operation (jointly working towards the same ends) is not the same as blindly following management dictate

Section 7 only requires co-operation "so far as is necessary"

Roundtuit  
#17 Posted : 24 October 2019 10:12:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Co-operation (jointly working towards the same ends) is not the same as blindly following management dictate

Section 7 only requires co-operation "so far as is necessary"

stevedm  
#18 Posted : 24 October 2019 17:54:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

The ultimate solution would be to provide hoods which can be costed.... and at ~£500-800 (all parts) a time I would think whoever hold the purse strings will influence your HR providers stance... :)

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