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Benz3ne  
#1 Posted : 10 February 2021 09:43:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Benz3ne

Hi all, lurker for the most part but seeking advice on this one.

We have around 15 staff maximum in an area with two main fire escape routes. We've recently been told by our HS Manager that site security was an issue (unmanned reception area so visitors/deliveries walking into building unnoticed). The site manager here has taken that instruction to lock doors to prevent access from visitors unless allowed in (doorbell to alert staff available). The 'front' door is a top and bottom manual deadlock and the rear is the same but with a 'push to exit' button available also.

The staff have been advised on how to operate the doors in case of emergency so are familiar with the workings but there's still a concern that it prohibits egress and is an undue risk.

I've seen conflicting information - some say that locks can be included as long as non-keyholders can still open said doors (which is the case), and some say that a fire door/exit must be operable in 'one action', eg. pressing of a fire door handle or bar to open.

Any comments on the above?

SammyK  
#2 Posted : 10 February 2021 11:42:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SammyK

Hello, We too had this problem and were advised by London fire brigade to make them an automatic release on fire alarm activating. Although costly, is this something you could do?

Benz3ne  
#3 Posted : 10 February 2021 11:54:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Benz3ne

Thanks for your prompt response SammyK. I guess it's a possibility but I'm almost certain that it would be cost prohibitive. The absolute ideal would be trying to find a workaround/solution with what's currently in situ, but I'll look into auto-releases in the meantime.

Originally Posted by: SammyK Go to Quoted Post

Hello, We too had this problem and were advised by London fire brigade to make them an automatic release on fire alarm activating. Although costly, is this something you could do?



N Hancock  
#4 Posted : 10 February 2021 13:49:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
N Hancock

Have you considered break glass locks ?  might not be suitable but a sugesstion none the less :)

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 10 February 2021 14:06:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

From BS 9999:2017 Fire Safety in the design management and use of buildings which mirrors Approved Document B of the Building Regulations: It might also be appropriate to accept on some final exit doors locks for security that are used only when the building is empty. In these cases the emphasis for the safe use of these locks should be placed on management procedures.

Personally I read that where locks are fitted their use is restricted to "out of hours" and should not be employed whilst the building is occupied.

On a unit we rented the final exit "fire doors" had security grills on the outside - the first to arrive every morning had to open the grills and padlock them in the open position whilst the last out at night padlocked the grills in the closed position.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Benz3ne on 16/02/2021(UTC), Benz3ne on 16/02/2021(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 10 February 2021 14:06:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

From BS 9999:2017 Fire Safety in the design management and use of buildings which mirrors Approved Document B of the Building Regulations: It might also be appropriate to accept on some final exit doors locks for security that are used only when the building is empty. In these cases the emphasis for the safe use of these locks should be placed on management procedures.

Personally I read that where locks are fitted their use is restricted to "out of hours" and should not be employed whilst the building is occupied.

On a unit we rented the final exit "fire doors" had security grills on the outside - the first to arrive every morning had to open the grills and padlock them in the open position whilst the last out at night padlocked the grills in the closed position.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Benz3ne on 16/02/2021(UTC), Benz3ne on 16/02/2021(UTC)
HSSnail  
#7 Posted : 10 February 2021 14:58:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Benz3ene

have used Push Pad Emergency Exit Latch in similar situations, can be fit retrospectively and easier than a full locking bar system.

A quick internet search on Push Pad Emergency Exit Latch will give you examples of what i mean.

Benz3ne  
#8 Posted : 10 February 2021 15:32:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Benz3ne

Originally Posted by: N Hancock Go to Quoted Post

Have you considered break glass locks ?  might not be suitable but a sugesstion none the less :)

I have not - will have a look into them but as the doors are used sometimes throughout the day it might not be an ideal situation. Thanks for adding your thoughts all the same!

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

From BS 9999:2017 Fire Safety in the design management and use of buildings which mirrors Approved Document B of the Building Regulations: It might also be appropriate to accept on some final exit doors locks for security that are used only when the building is empty. In these cases the emphasis for the safe use of these locks should be placed on management procedures.

Personally I read that where locks are fitted their use is restricted to "out of hours" and should not be employed whilst the building is occupied.

On a unit we rented the final exit "fire doors" had security grills on the outside - the first to arrive every morning had to open the grills and padlock them in the open position whilst the last out at night padlocked the grills in the closed position.

Excellent - thanks for this Roundtuit. I, truthfully, hadn't got around to spending time going through the regs, so you've done me a big favour there. Thank you.

I'll probably use Brian's advice as a suggestion to management anyway. It's not unheard of to have a exit bar/handle/latch on the inside of the door but being unable to open it from the outside, so that suggestion seems to tick most (if not all) boxes at a glance.

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard Go to Quoted Post

Benz3ene

have used Push Pad Emergency Exit Latch in similar situations, can be fit retrospectively and easier than a full locking bar system.

A quick internet search on Push Pad Emergency Exit Latch will give you examples of what i mean.


Thanks for this Mr Hagyard. It looks like a good solution to the issue. It's similar to our 'push to exit' button for one of the doors, but a bit more 'definite' as to whether it opens the latch(es).

Thanks once again all. Very much appreciated.

Messey  
#9 Posted : 13 February 2021 05:36:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

Unless I have missed something here, I get a feeling that many of these solutions - with respect - are overcomplicating matters.

A lock on an escape route must open without the use of a key (or code or ID card etc). So what is wrong with a simple rim lock (like you may have on your front door at home) or a level handle type lock with the handle on the inside only?

Out of hours, deadlocks and chains can be fitted, but during working hours, only the rim lock is used. Staff leaving simply turn the handle and out

It what I and many do with our homes. My front door has a rim lock (aka Yale lock) plus two mortise locks. I only ever use the rim lock when I am home, but fasten the mortise locks when I am out

Push pads, electronic locks and green box overrides of course have their place, but for a small 15 person occupacy premises with 2 x final exits, a simple one action rim lock with handle may surely suffice

thanks 2 users thanked Messey for this useful post.
jodieclark1510 on 15/02/2021(UTC), Benz3ne on 16/02/2021(UTC)
Benz3ne  
#10 Posted : 16 February 2021 09:21:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Benz3ne

Originally Posted by: Messey Go to Quoted Post

Unless I have missed something here, I get a feeling that many of these solutions - with respect - are overcomplicating matters.

A lock on an escape route must open without the use of a key (or code or ID card etc). So what is wrong with a simple rim lock (like you may have on your front door at home) or a level handle type lock with the handle on the inside only?

Out of hours, deadlocks and chains can be fitted, but during working hours, only the rim lock is used. Staff leaving simply turn the handle and out

It what I and many do with our homes. My front door has a rim lock (aka Yale lock) plus two mortise locks. I only ever use the rim lock when I am home, but fasten the mortise locks when I am out

Push pads, electronic locks and green box overrides of course have their place, but for a small 15 person occupacy premises with 2 x final exits, a simple one action rim lock with handle may surely suffice


You've missed nothing, I think. Our 'deadlocks' as I've described are simple rim-locks but our 'front door' is not accessible from outside either without a key or someone letting you in. The 'side' door is operable with a keypad or fob for those who have them, otherwise it's a case of use door 1.

I've concluded that with training on how to operate each of the doors in case of emergency suffices. Both doors now open outwards also and are locked only at one point with a simple twist-to-open lock, that is now also labelled with a directional arrow.

That's the best option for us at present to keep spending to a minimum. I'll review in due course and with a fire drill and if that thows up any issues I'll push for a 'better' system.

Thanks for this.

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