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Robert Moore  
#1 Posted : 12 August 2024 09:50:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Robert Moore

Hello One and All, I have a quick question regarding the delivery of MEWPs.

What is the legal requirement of the person delivering them to site with regards to familiarisation of the said equipment?

Thank you 

Rob

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 12 August 2024 10:28:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Why should there be any requirement on a delivery driver? Your issue would be of a contractual nature with the equipment provider, if you asked.
thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Robert Moore on 12/08/2024(UTC), Robert Moore on 12/08/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 12 August 2024 10:28:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Why should there be any requirement on a delivery driver? Your issue would be of a contractual nature with the equipment provider, if you asked.
thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Robert Moore on 12/08/2024(UTC), Robert Moore on 12/08/2024(UTC)
chris42  
#4 Posted : 12 August 2024 10:59:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Isn’t the delivery driver the one that offloads it from their vehicle. If so, they would need to be able to operate it. There are particular requirements when offloading.

thanks 2 users thanked chris42 for this useful post.
Robert Moore on 12/08/2024(UTC), HSSnail on 12/08/2024(UTC)
firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 12 August 2024 11:04:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

The driver will have to offload the MEWP safely and park it in an area specified.

I would think your operators who would be trained and posess relevant cards will be familiar with the operation.

You do not want an unqualified person being told how to operate it.

thanks 1 user thanked firesafety101 for this useful post.
Robert Moore on 12/08/2024(UTC)
HSSnail  
#6 Posted : 12 August 2024 14:58:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post

Isn’t the delivery driver the one that offloads it from their vehicle. If so, they would need to be able to operate it. There are particular requirements when offloading.

Once dealt with a very nasty accident where a MEWP was being delivered on a flatbed, needs a careful RA and a very experienced operator.

Kate  
#7 Posted : 12 August 2024 15:35:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I'm not sure why you are asking about a legal requirement.  The law doesn't go into such minute detail as prescribing what training is needed in specific logistics or machinery operations (other than qualifications for driving on public roads).  As you will know, training is part of the list of things that employers have to consider and provide where required to ensure health and safety, but you won't find anything more specific in the law than that.

People will often say that such and such is 'a legal requirement'.  Nine times out of ten they are making that up (or have heard it as a result of someone making it up).

thanks 3 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
Paul S12 on 13/08/2024(UTC), Roundtuit on 13/08/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 13/08/2024(UTC)
HSSnail  
#8 Posted : 13 August 2024 07:09:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Robert

I am just wondering if  have misread your post, are you asking if the delivery driver must familiarise your staff with the use of the MEWP?

If thats the case you may find this HSE page useful. 

FAQs - Hiring out work equipment - Equipment and machinery (hse.gov.uk)

You will see the hire company is treat as the "supplier" under the regs - but thier duties do not extend to training your staff.

Roundtuit  
#9 Posted : 13 August 2024 08:57:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post
Isn’t the delivery driver the one that offloads it from their vehicle. If so, they would need to be able to operate it. There are particular requirements when offloading.
Bit of a difference though between being able to do something and being contractually obliged to provide a service to others.
Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 13 August 2024 08:57:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post
Isn’t the delivery driver the one that offloads it from their vehicle. If so, they would need to be able to operate it. There are particular requirements when offloading.
Bit of a difference though between being able to do something and being contractually obliged to provide a service to others.
chris42  
#11 Posted : 14 August 2024 08:16:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

I’m not sure I understand what you mean exactly regarding contract. If you deliver something, then there will be an expectation (part of the hire contract if you like) to leave it behind once you get to the destination. Otherwise, you’re not delivering, just taking it for a ride.

If you have a washing machine delivered, they take it off the vehicle, or 1,000 bricks they would use a HIAB to get them off etc and not expect the customer to do it. I have never known a hire company say to its customer it will be up to you to offload your cherry picker once we get there. Perhaps I have led a sheltered life.

Also, as above I attended an accident where a MEWP fell off the back of the transport vehicle while being off loaded. The HSE were there and main contractor (also a very angry horse), Luckily the operative was not killed but I think that was just luck, though he was not in good shape for a few months.

The HSE were very interested in his training, and he did have an IPAF qualification to operate it. I was not involved that much as although he was just about on the access road to our compound on the main contractors site it was still a mile and a half away on the main contractors’ site (he was also working directly for main contractor doing something else). Turned out as well as slipping off the side of the ramp they had not put the locking pin in to prevent rotation, so it acted like a catapult. Luckily, he was not using a harness or restraint, so he was thrown clear.

My view to the OP question is yes they need training.

mike350  
#12 Posted : 14 August 2024 08:33:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mike350

If I've understood correctly, your question is about the responsibility of the supplier to make sure the person who's going to drive it is familiar with it's operation.

The supplier needs to supply the machine spec requested, with a current inspection certificate, a pre delivery inspection (possibly) and off load it to a safe place before handing it over.

Ensuring the operator is competent and familiar with the equipment is the renters responsibilty. For instance the driver should have an operators licence but it may have been on a different make of machine and the controls in a different a different place/order.

Investigated a fatality years ago after a lorry driver was crushed by a forklift where the FLT driver wasn't familiar with the machine he was using because his was undergoing a service.

Roundtuit  
#13 Posted : 14 August 2024 08:49:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post
I’m not sure I understand what you mean exactly regarding contract. If you deliver something, then there will be an expectation (part of the hire contract if you like) to leave it behind once you get to the destination. Otherwise, you’re not delivering, just taking it for a ride.
On the same page so far. Then back to what I am reading as the OP is there then a legal requirement for the delivery driver to provide familiarisation training to the site personnel? As Kate pointed out legally there is no requirement and it then comes down to the contract. We will supply to site OR we will supply to site and provide are two different and exclusive actions
Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 14 August 2024 08:49:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post
I’m not sure I understand what you mean exactly regarding contract. If you deliver something, then there will be an expectation (part of the hire contract if you like) to leave it behind once you get to the destination. Otherwise, you’re not delivering, just taking it for a ride.
On the same page so far. Then back to what I am reading as the OP is there then a legal requirement for the delivery driver to provide familiarisation training to the site personnel? As Kate pointed out legally there is no requirement and it then comes down to the contract. We will supply to site OR we will supply to site and provide are two different and exclusive actions
chris42  
#15 Posted : 14 August 2024 09:33:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post
I’m not sure I understand what you mean exactly regarding contract. If you deliver something, then there will be an expectation (part of the hire contract if you like) to leave it behind once you get to the destination. Otherwise, you’re not delivering, just taking it for a ride.
On the same page so far. Then back to what I am reading as the OP is there then a legal requirement for the delivery driver to provide familiarisation training to the site personnel? As Kate pointed out legally there is no requirement and it then comes down to the contract. We will supply to site OR we will supply to site and provide are two different and exclusive actions

Ah now I see where you are coming from. You are taking the OP’s question was about them giving familiarisation training to others (the customer). However, I am reading their question of the driver needing familiarisation training themselves. 

Perhaps the OP would like to clarify, which they meant.

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