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Hendlem  
#1 Posted : 15 August 2024 09:35:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Hendlem

Good morning

I don't know if anyone can guide me in the right direction, but I've been reading the ISO14001 standard, but struggling to put together any cost estimate proposal.

My company employs circa 260 staff and comprises 3 different businesses:

- AdBlue and Aerosol production (we have 4 x 10,000 litre AdBlue tanks and a 40,000 litre SBP2 solvent tank).

- A steel fabrications company undertaking particularly large projects for well-known third-party enterprises.

- A vehicle component (Diesel Particulate Filters and Catalytic Converters) manufacturer.

In addition, we have a large warehouse and a fleet of distribution vehicles which of course produce emissions.

When it comes to cost, I know we'll need the following:

1. Environmental Management System

2. Training

3. Bunding

4. Grid/drain covers

5. Control of hazardous substances

6. Absolute segregation of waste

7. Licenced waste carriers and a robust audit trail

8. Aspects and Impacts Assessments

9. A third-party consultant to guide us to ISO14001

10. Training up internal auditors

11. The ISO14001 Certification

If anyone can add anything to this, it would be greatly appreciated. Ultimately, I'm looking for realistic monetary amounts to bring the company to the 14001 level. 

Apologies if this is vague, but the general intent has been a little bit '11th hour'. 

Thank you in advance. 

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 15 August 2024 10:03:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Several items on your list are about conducting legal business and only indirectly get attached to the certification of an environmental management system. Your costs will be the third party audits and certification which is generally pro rata for number of employees and number of locations - SGS, BSI, Intertek are amongst some of the providers I have used. You need to contact a provider for quote Avoid consultants as it is meant to be the companies systems that the company employees follow not some change the logo and company name template. The one area a consultant could be utilised is in place of training and wrangling internal auditors as they do not have day jobs within the business to contend with. Remember ISO are all based on a three year assessment cycle so your spend is per cycle not per annum.
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 15 August 2024 10:03:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Several items on your list are about conducting legal business and only indirectly get attached to the certification of an environmental management system. Your costs will be the third party audits and certification which is generally pro rata for number of employees and number of locations - SGS, BSI, Intertek are amongst some of the providers I have used. You need to contact a provider for quote Avoid consultants as it is meant to be the companies systems that the company employees follow not some change the logo and company name template. The one area a consultant could be utilised is in place of training and wrangling internal auditors as they do not have day jobs within the business to contend with. Remember ISO are all based on a three year assessment cycle so your spend is per cycle not per annum.
peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 15 August 2024 10:37:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Good morning Hendlem

I'm with Roundtuit. 

Most of the items on your agenda have nothing to do with getting an ISO accreditation but rather complying with statutory requirements for the management of health, safety and environmental risks. 

To be honest if conditions are as poorly managed as your list would suggest then I think you should probably put ISO standards to one side until some of the basics have been dealt with. 

The regulators are NOT going to take enforcement action against your organisation for not having a piece of paper saying accredited to 14001, but they might well take enforcement action if e.g. your tanks are not adequately bunded or your COSHH regime is inadequate.

Almost each of the items would need to be costed individually and it would be impossible to make a sensible estimate of what is needed without seeing the sites, processes and the precautions that are currently in place.

Good luck, Peter

Hendlem  
#5 Posted : 15 August 2024 11:05:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Hendlem

Thank you, both. 

Apologies for omitting to mention that we are transitioning into areas and naturally, the legal requirements will of course be adhered to before any implementation was completed. 

I will take your advice and call the providers you have referred to. 

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post
Several items on your list are about conducting legal business and only indirectly get attached to the certification of an environmental management system. Your costs will be the third party audits and certification which is generally pro rata for number of employees and number of locations - SGS, BSI, Intertek are amongst some of the providers I have used. You need to contact a provider for quote Avoid consultants as it is meant to be the companies systems that the company employees follow not some change the logo and company name template. The one area a consultant could be utilised is in place of training and wrangling internal auditors as they do not have day jobs within the business to contend with. Remember ISO are all based on a three year assessment cycle so your spend is per cycle not per annum.
Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post
Several items on your list are about conducting legal business and only indirectly get attached to the certification of an environmental management system. Your costs will be the third party audits and certification which is generally pro rata for number of employees and number of locations - SGS, BSI, Intertek are amongst some of the providers I have used. You need to contact a provider for quote Avoid consultants as it is meant to be the companies systems that the company employees follow not some change the logo and company name template. The one area a consultant could be utilised is in place of training and wrangling internal auditors as they do not have day jobs within the business to contend with. Remember ISO are all based on a three year assessment cycle so your spend is per cycle not per annum.
Originally Posted by: peter gotch Go to Quoted Post

Good morning Hendlem

I'm with Roundtuit. 

Most of the items on your agenda have nothing to do with getting an ISO accreditation but rather complying with statutory requirements for the management of health, safety and environmental risks. 

To be honest if conditions are as poorly managed as your list would suggest then I think you should probably put ISO standards to one side until some of the basics have been dealt with. 

The regulators are NOT going to take enforcement action against your organisation for not having a piece of paper saying accredited to 14001, but they might well take enforcement action if e.g. your tanks are not adequately bunded or your COSHH regime is inadequate.

Almost each of the items would need to be costed individually and it would be impossible to make a sensible estimate of what is needed without seeing the sites, processes and the precautions that are currently in place.

Good luck, Peter

Kate  
#6 Posted : 15 August 2024 15:22:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

About the certification cost.  To get the certification you first need a Stage 1 audit then a Stage 2 audit.  Then there will be periodic audits over  three years. Then every three years a longer recertification audit.  How long each of these audits takes is dependent on the size, risk and complexity of your operations.  A certifying body will be able to give you a quote covering each element.  To prepare this they will need to know how many employees in each capacity (admin, operational, etc), a short description of your operations perhaps a little more detailed than the one you have given above, and what you consider your main environmental risks to be.

On the development of the management system.  This will take loads of time, not just by you but by staff across the organisation.  You will need to include an estimate of the costs of this time.

Remember that to get ISO 14001 you don't have to prove that you have good environmental standards, but you do need to show you are fulfilling your legal requirements.  As mentioned already, if you don't already have things such as bunding and waste records you are failing at much more than ISO 14001, so I agree that the costs of this are not really the costs of ISO 14001 but the costs of doing business legally.  I think it's important to distinguish between the two when making the case for spending the money.

Here are my tips.

Make sure your provider is UKAS accredited for ISO 14001 certification (such as the ones mentioned above).  There are some much cheaper ones that aren't, but they are not credible and your customers may be unhappy with your claims to be certified if the certifying body isn't accredited.

Do you already have ISO 9001?  If so then your Quality manager will be able to help you with ISO 14001 as the standards have the same structure.  Also, there will be future efficiencies and cost savings in getting the same certifying body for both.

I agree that it is a poor choice to buy a management system from a consultant.  However, that doesn't mean that a consultant couldn't help you to develop your own. A consultant who has done this kind of thing before can help you to generate some of the documents you will need such as policy, legal register, context analysis, aspects and impacts analysis, internal audit plan.

The starting point is a gap analysis which it sounds as if you have started.  Some of the certifying bodies also offer courses with titles such as "Introduction to ISO 14001" and "Implementing ISO 14001".  I did BSI's "Implementing OHSAS 18001" back in the day (you can see how back in the day that was from the title) and found it useful in developing a management system.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
Roundtuit on 15/08/2024(UTC)
chris42  
#7 Posted : 16 August 2024 08:02:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

In addition to what others have said, you will need at least 2 people who are trained as internal auditors, as the one will need to audit the other (as you can’t audit yourself).

 Obviously, you need to keep up to date with legislation and you may already pay into some sort of system for updates, but if you don’t then this could end up a cost depending on how you are able to demonstrate you keep up with changes that affect you. You don’t have to pay into some system but consider how you will prove compliance.

With whichever audit company you go with you will pay travel costs, and they may want to charge for hotels etc. Therefore, agree in advance that your auditor will not be coming from the other end of the country for travel costs and then no hotels, get them to fix it if you can for 3 years if they want your business.

Consultants – I would say it is better if someone in the organisation understands each and every ISO clause and what you do to comply, so at best I would say a consultant would be advising that person(s). You will probably do this when you do a gap analysis.

In addition, with training, waste notes are considered legal documents so whoever signs the declaration on behalf of the company, will need some training to understand what they are signing up to (and the auditor will expect to see it). Waste companies produce the notes for you, but you are responsible for what is on them. So potentially a cost, but I would suggest someone in the company can do this training once they understand themselves.

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