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Rachel Crook  
#1 Posted : 28 November 2024 13:39:39(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Rachel Crook

Is there any H&S guidance on WFH with under 12 year olds in the house,with no other adult supervision in the home, essentially a colleague looking after a 4 and 7 year old whilst working? My gut feeling is that this isn't H&S breach, but more an ethical / breach of common sense principles form a parental point of view and a buisness culture, but didn't know if anyone had a Hybrid policy that specifically states you can't work from home and be looking after children simlutatiously on a regular/ day- day basis?

It's a desk based role, that involes making out bound calls to a customer base, so some level of confidentiality and privacy is required, as well as the business reputation. 

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 28 November 2024 13:54:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Rachel

Your first post here, so welcome to the Forums.

I would imagine that the scenario you describe is quite common with the huge increase in Working from Home.

So, the question is really about whether a parent can exercise sufficient supervision of two young children AND do some outbound calls effectively at the same time.

Which depends to some extent on how easily this person can shut down a call to go and deal with a child.

Which in turn may depend on the nature of the calls. Is the person at the other end an existing customer who will take umbrage if cut off at short notice and mar the "relationship" between customer and service provider, or possibly someone at the end of a cold call where the probability is that the customer will say NO whatever the overall experience of the call.

What does the individual have to say? What are the views of their managers? 

Rachel Crook  
#3 Posted : 28 November 2024 14:00:47(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Rachel Crook

I would expect that any of our customers would expect a high level of service and would not expect to hear children or family life in the background and probably take offence if the call was cut short because of that. 

I haven't spoken to the colleague or the manager themselves, the enquiry came from our HR department, I'm guessing they are trying to find something written down, so they can formally push back

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 28 November 2024 14:15:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

This is one of the scenarios a lot of employers are seeking to curtail by insisting on a return to the office.

As good as the person may be, or as simple as the task appears, young children need engagement and stimulation which if the parent is correctly focusing on the work to be done for the employer during paid working hours would not be forthcoming.

As a one off e.g. the child minder was ill it may just be tolerable although ideally this should be a compassionate leave day or holiday.

We don't work in the fluffy marketing world a certain chocolate brand tries to show where mum drops work and plays penguin to get a treat from the fridge for her children.

To have it as an on-going situation puts the employer and their business at direct risk and also sets a precedent for other employees to request parity in treatment.

Pre-covid work from home was always on the presumption the employee would either be at home alone or able to isolate themself in a dedicated "home office".

It may be funny, it may be cute, it is not professional https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh4f9AYRCZY

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 28 November 2024 14:15:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

This is one of the scenarios a lot of employers are seeking to curtail by insisting on a return to the office.

As good as the person may be, or as simple as the task appears, young children need engagement and stimulation which if the parent is correctly focusing on the work to be done for the employer during paid working hours would not be forthcoming.

As a one off e.g. the child minder was ill it may just be tolerable although ideally this should be a compassionate leave day or holiday.

We don't work in the fluffy marketing world a certain chocolate brand tries to show where mum drops work and plays penguin to get a treat from the fridge for her children.

To have it as an on-going situation puts the employer and their business at direct risk and also sets a precedent for other employees to request parity in treatment.

Pre-covid work from home was always on the presumption the employee would either be at home alone or able to isolate themself in a dedicated "home office".

It may be funny, it may be cute, it is not professional https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh4f9AYRCZY

chris42  
#6 Posted : 28 November 2024 15:29:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

I don’t see this as a H&S issue.

HR will have to do their own dirty work and not use H&S as a scapegoat.

thanks 8 users thanked chris42 for this useful post.
Kate on 28/11/2024(UTC), Roundtuit on 28/11/2024(UTC), M.cooper.99 on 29/11/2024(UTC), LancBob on 29/11/2024(UTC), Holliday42333 on 29/11/2024(UTC), A Kurdziel on 29/11/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 29/11/2024(UTC), JoshBoam on 04/12/2024(UTC)
Kate  
#7 Posted : 28 November 2024 17:14:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I'm with Chris on this.

Going to first principles:

Who might be at risk of injury or ill-health as a result of this working practice - the parent, the children, apparently not anyone else?

At most you might argue that trying to look after children at the same time as working for an employer is a source of stress for the parent.  But that's not the real problem anyone has with this, is it?

The safety and well-being of the children in this case is nothing to do with any H&S legislation or guidance, as they are neither at work nor being affected by the work activity itself.  It would be different if the work activity was some kind of engineering or manufacturing work being done in the home that might put them at risk of injury if they came into contact with it.  The only thing they are at risk from here is the parent's divided attention and not the nature of the work activity.

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
M.cooper.99 on 29/11/2024(UTC), Holliday42333 on 29/11/2024(UTC)
Alan Haynes  
#8 Posted : 29 November 2024 09:14:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alan Haynes

Have asked my wife for her views. (She was a professional Social Worker - Team Manager in Children's Services).

She says that if the worker is properly working at home, in her professional opinion the children cannot be properly cared for, and they should be with a registered Chidminder. If not, and something happened (accident or complaint from 3rd party), action by Social Services could well occur.
thanks 1 user thanked Alan Haynes for this useful post.
Roundtuit on 29/11/2024(UTC)
bobM  
#9 Posted : 29 November 2024 10:07:06(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
bobM

Hello!

This situation may raise ethical or professional concerns, as supervising young children while working could impact the quality of both childcare and job performance. Employers may view this as a potential risk to business reputation, particularly in client-facing roles. Ultimately, the decision depends on the employer's policies and expectations. If no formal policy exists, it might be worth discussing this with management to ensure clarity and alignment with company standards.

stevedm  
#10 Posted : 30 November 2024 10:49:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Implied Duty of Mutual Trust and Confidence:

  • Employers and employees must act in good faith. If the employer imposes unreasonable demands (e.g., insisting on full productivity during standard working hours without considering childcare needs), it could breach this duty.
  • Employment Rights Act 1996: Employers can expect employees to perform their contractual duties unless otherwise agreed. However, employees are also entitled to statutory protections, such as requests for flexible working arrangements.

Direct and Indirect Discrimination:

  • Discriminatory treatment (e.g., penalising parents for productivity issues linked to childcare) could be challenged under the Equality Act 2010.
  • Flexible Working Regulation 2014: Sections related to indirect discrimination could be invoked if an employer imposes practices that unfairly disadvantage parents.

Health and Safety at Work:

  • Employers must consider risks under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, which applies even for employees working remotely.

Children Act 1989:

  • Parents have a statutory duty to prioritise their children's welfare, which could conflict with an employer's demands for full productivity.

All that said most employers have an understaing that this goes on and very few actually formalise the arrangements...so long as poroductivity is maintained.

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