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10MARK  
#41 Posted : 27 February 2016 14:05:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
10MARK

The reality is at this time Nebosh qualifications are by far the most known with many people outside of the field familiar with them. They are also by a long way the most sought after qualification by employers. This being the case then surely the way to maximise your chances of gaining employment in the field is to get a Nebosh qualification if you have the opportunity. I work with people with the NVQ 5 and although they gained their qualification a different way to me their level of knowledge is comparable to mine and in at least one case superior . It remains to be seen if the NCRQ will be widely accepted by employers , I for one if I was starting out now wouldn't take the chance with it just yet .
A similar thread on this subject in 2 years time will make interesting reading
Binniem  
#42 Posted : 28 February 2016 08:44:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Binniem

10MARK wrote:
I had not heard of this qualification until a couple of weeks ago so when I did I looked at many many job adverts , not one asks for it , it does not seem to be very well known at all !!
Does the route to Grad status involve an open book exam for the NCRQ ?


where did you look for jobs?

there as a fair few already recognising NCRQ

http://www.indeed.co.uk/jobs?q=ncrq&l=

http://www.totaljobs.com...&LTxt=&Radius=10

http://www.jobsite.co.uk...;location=&radius=20
10MARK  
#43 Posted : 28 February 2016 13:06:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
10MARK

I live in the North East so that is where I searched , at no time have I said it is not recognised in some places , just Id never seen it asked for, up till today that is .My understanding is that it has just been launched at Diploma level and no one has yet completed the course as it is so new, if this is not the case I am happy to be corrected.
WatsonD  
#44 Posted : 29 February 2016 08:17:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Why should qualifications be of no interest to an employer?

There are different employers in a range of industries out there with a variety of H&S roles. Qualifications required for these roles should be relevant to the type and level of the job.

The qualification route we choose should be based, as far as is reasonably practicable (geddit), on the type and level of job we are aspiring to.

The long and short of it is, that is is up to you. But it is a big decision, and, to my mind should be. Why should our industry have an easy entry point, with employers not interested in any qualifications? It is a tough job requiring a dedicated professional. I am reassured by the level of qualification required, and proud to achieve them. I wouldn't want a doctor to have an easy route into medicine
imponderabilius  
#45 Posted : 29 February 2016 13:50:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
imponderabilius

WatsonD wrote:
Why should qualifications be of no interest to an employer?

[...]


What I meant was particular qualification, not level of competence. So, if you have a diploma in H&S, it is still a diploma, and if you are CMIOSH, why should you be discriminated only because you got there using different path than the one that's most popular, as long as you can prove you're competent to do the job?
pseudonym  
#46 Posted : 29 February 2016 16:14:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pseudonym

Surely IOSH accepts different routes to CMIOSH and requires different types of 'assessment' form people depending on which route they have taken - meaning that there shouldn't be any "easy routes" into the safety profession. If there really are easy routes then IOSH isn't doing its job properly and should lose its Royal Charter!
WatsonD  
#47 Posted : 01 March 2016 08:14:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Pseudonym - My last post does not mention routes into CMIOSH or even IOSH at all. I am suggesting that qualifications should and do count in the recruitment process and those qualifications should be challenging, so please don't twist my words.

imponderabilius - I see what you mean. By advertising as GradIOSH, TechIOSH or CMIOSH, etc. But would they then have to take into account CIEH, APS, etc. rather than just IOSH membership?

I don't really know enough about the other institutes. I know APS would be more for construction, but does it have chartered status. And is CIEH more relevant to environmental focused roles? Again I don't know.
pseudonym  
#48 Posted : 01 March 2016 08:57:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pseudonym


Ok- so I guess we're both agreeing then that its the mix of qualifications (whatever suites your style of learning and / or budget) and experience alongside personal qualities that should count.
I only mentioned IOSH as IOSH do seem to be regarded as the most important H&S professional body
WatsonD  
#49 Posted : 01 March 2016 09:26:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Exactly. My understanding is your route to CMIOSH status reflects your training to date? So if its a diploma you have then you need to show experience and vice-versa with the open book for NVQ's

However, I also think that we as an industry should set a standard, as we constantly pick over the bones of which is the best route. It happens in engineering and construction so why not?

This is where apprenticeships IMHO have been getting it right for years. There is a day release at college (Diploma) and then work based evidence (NVQ), which combined together make up a full apprenticeship qual. Knowledge AND experience.

Okay they are mostly levels 2&3, but they are developing higher quals. One issue here being that our current NVQ is level 5 and the Diploma level 6.

I think that is what NCRQ is trying to do in the structure of their qualification. I wonder whether it will hold up to this though.

However, stripping it back to the beginning, why can't the NGC and an NVQ level 3 combined be an entry route and the Dip and NVQ be equivalent to that of what a HND is to engineers.

Just a suggestion. I realise it is contentious.
pseudonym  
#50 Posted : 01 March 2016 09:35:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pseudonym

We seem to be sort of agreeing again.
One of the biggest problems with H&S is that (most) employers seem to copy each other's adverts - very few seem to understand that there are several ways to become a H&S professional - its not all NEBOSH Certificate .. ..
I think that's why job hunting / recruitment is such a problem - as a profession we haven't been professional enough in informing our customers (employers or whomever) what it takes to be a professional H&S person (And yes I do realise that there are differing levels required in different roles) - you tend not to see this so much in Engineering / Science etc
ashley84  
#51 Posted : 01 March 2016 09:54:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ashley84

From my understanding, is that the Diploma and NVQ 5 are equal but the government deems the NVQ 5 higher I don't know whether I'm reading the information correctly please see the link below.

https://www.gov.uk/what-...ent-qualification-levels
WatsonD  
#52 Posted : 01 March 2016 10:07:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Haha... we are - I think. Its just my last post went off on a tangent. I'm trying to suggest that the apprenticeship model of qualifications and experience combined is a good one.


Ashley84 that Government web page doesn't seem to know where to put the NVQ. RQF was launched last year to - believe it or not - help to provide clarity. I would say it has a long way to go.
I would go for the QCF advice: http://www.accreditedqua...redit-framework-qcf.html



jwk  
#53 Posted : 01 March 2016 10:36:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

I thought the IPD/Open Book exam was how IOSH replaced the 'missing' elements from the NVQ/Academic routes. If you take an exam qualification you demonstrate your experience with IPD, if you do an NVQ you have to take an exam,

John
WatsonD  
#54 Posted : 01 March 2016 11:05:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

jwk wrote:
I thought the IPD/Open Book exam was how IOSH replaced the 'missing' elements from the NVQ/Academic routes. If you take an exam qualification you demonstrate your experience with IPD, if you do an NVQ you have to take an exam,

John


They do, but only to gain CMIOSH. This doesn't happen at any other member grade. And maybe that is where the standard is. Perhaps I am looking into this too deep, and in the process completely missing the point.

It would be interesting to know how they will assess those who have taken the NCRQ route?

P.S. - I'm surprised to see that there are jobs advertised with the NCRQ diploma as a requirement as the NCRQ website states: The NCRQ Diploma in Applied Health and Safety will be available in full from June 2016(?)!
10MARK  
#55 Posted : 01 March 2016 12:18:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
10MARK

As another poster has said , the NCRQ diploma is not yet available so the original subject "NCRQ v Nebosh Diploma" is probably one for next year . The Nebosh Diploma v NVQ5 is one debate that seems to run and run and run and run. The simple fact is that more employers ask for the Nebosh Diploma than any other qualification at this time , this may change in the future .The attached makes interesting reading and gives one view

http://rospaworkplacesaf...diploma-route-to-cmiosh/
Angelo shanahan  
#56 Posted : 02 March 2016 07:36:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Angelo shanahan

Good morning Gerry,

how you getting on with the course?

Just completed my NPORS instructor so free to do my next course, will be either the NVQ 5/6 or the NCRQ.

Any feedback of your experience so far would be appreciated

Kind regards

Angelo
imponderabilius  
#57 Posted : 15 March 2016 14:15:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
imponderabilius

Angelo shanahan wrote:

Any feedback of your experience so far would be appreciated

Kind regards

Angelo


Hi Angelo,
so far I've submitted my 1st assessment and I'm waiting for feedback. The whole course seems to be quite logical and coherent - it actually requires you to think and add 2+2 and come up with an answer yourself instead of telling you to memorize that 2+2=4 like NEBOSH does, if you know what I mean.
Binniem  
#58 Posted : 15 March 2016 15:32:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Binniem

I've just received my certificates and can confirm the rest of the HSD1 course and assignments are laid out like this.

I particularly enjoyed assignment 3, Giving Advice.

Assignment 4 is basically CPD, I regularly update my CPD with IOSH and used that for assignment 4.
gerrysharpe  
#59 Posted : 16 March 2016 08:14:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

I just got my feedback for Assessment 1 and 2, Got a Merit for 1 and a Distinction for 2 :-) so very pleased.

Just waiting for 3 and 4
trebor123  
#60 Posted : 16 March 2016 09:02:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
trebor123

In this day there should be no exams - they dont take into account - everyone's learning style is different, be it health, background, special needs etc... when we get older a lot of us suffer memory loss due to natural and in some cases accidents etc.. so why cant providers offer alternatives instead assuming that we are all the same !!! - I dont this argument - Standards bodies need to come into the real world and listen to those learners who have difficulties etc..
WatsonD  
#61 Posted : 16 March 2016 09:21:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

trebor123 wrote:
In this day there should be no exams - they dont take into account - everyone's learning style is different, be it health, background, special needs etc... when we get older a lot of us suffer memory loss due to natural and in some cases accidents etc.. so why cant providers offer alternatives instead assuming that we are all the same !!! - I dont this argument - Standards bodies need to come into the real world and listen to those learners who have difficulties etc..


Whilst I agree generally with your statement about different learning styles. I think the fact you can now do either the Diploma / NVQ or NCRQ is a case of providers offering alternatives.

All of those quals/ standards are renewed every 5 years by an advisory panel. A panel anyone can volunteer for.
Binniem  
#62 Posted : 16 March 2016 09:33:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Binniem

gerrysharpe wrote:
I just got my feedback for Assessment 1 and 2, Got a Merit for 1 and a Distinction for 2 :-) so very pleased.

Just waiting for 3 and 4


Well done Gerry, That's the same grading I achieved for those assessments!

imponderabilius  
#63 Posted : 16 March 2016 16:37:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
imponderabilius

gerrysharpe wrote:
I just got my feedback for Assessment 1 and 2, Got a Merit for 1 and a Distinction for 2 :-) so very pleased.

Just waiting for 3 and 4


Gratz! I hope I'll do equally well :)
AdrianW  
#64 Posted : 16 March 2016 18:26:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AdrianW

I'm interested in studying for the one module; Certificate in Personal Injury Liability.

I understand that this course will be available as of May or June of this year.

Does anyone have an opinion on this course?
Binniem  
#65 Posted : 17 March 2016 07:56:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Binniem

Adrian its actually due to be released on the 29th of this month
AdrianW  
#66 Posted : 17 March 2016 15:09:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AdrianW

Binniem wrote:
Adrian its actually due to be released on the 29th of this month


Thanks Binniem
Binniem  
#67 Posted : 29 March 2016 08:42:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Binniem

AdrianW wrote:
Binniem wrote:
Adrian its actually due to be released on the 29th of this month


Thanks Binniem



Adrian, I've just signed up for HSD2 this morning, it's available via the website.

Looking forward to making a start to the second unit!
Safety_owen  
#68 Posted : 06 April 2016 13:34:02(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Safety_owen

Greetings,
I recently bump into this "as hot as pancake" health and safety qualification NCRQ and really getting a lot of feed backs. i have read in their website that they'll be introducing the International Diploma version (late this year 2016?). However i have read somewhere that the National Diploma is recognized in Australia or perhaps in some commonwealth countries as well. my question, is it difficult to apply UK H&S Law if one is working in a different (international) country in order to pass the National Diploma NCRQ?

2nd since if planning to migrate to one of the commonwealth countries of UK, will the National Diploma bear more weight than the International Diploma.
Thanks guys, will appreciate any feed backs..
mike52  
#69 Posted : 14 April 2016 18:08:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mike52

what I am looking forward to is if the NCRQ route proves popular, will the NEBOSH diploma providers will start reassess their pricing for their courses.

after all why should someone chose a NEBOSH provider and pay in some cases nearly £4000 when they can get the NCRQ for almost a quarter of that.

I for one am considering the NCRQ route for that reason more than anything else.

Mike
WatsonD  
#70 Posted : 15 April 2016 07:57:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

mike52 wrote:
what I am looking forward to is if the NCRQ route proves popular, will the NEBOSH diploma providers will start reassess their pricing for their courses.

after all why should someone chose a NEBOSH provider and pay in some cases nearly £4000 when they can get the NCRQ for almost a quarter of that.

I for one am considering the NCRQ route for that reason more than anything else.

Mike


Doubtful Mike. The NCRQ is currently cheap to encourage people to choose it, over more established routes. Once it gains a market hold I expect it'll go up in price, rather than the other way round.
10MARK  
#71 Posted : 15 April 2016 11:55:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
10MARK

Remember , Nebosh only set the price of the examinations , its the suppliers who charge ridiculous amounts to study the course with them . Mine was "relatively" cheap at £3800 (no VAT) at my local college but have seen it well over £6000 with some for block study. These are the ones who will closely watch the market and raise or lower their prices accordingly just like Im sure NCRQ will. Another bug bear with Nebosh is if you fail an exam you have to wait 6 months to re-sit as they are only twice a year. Im sure this will change if NCRQ starts to eat significantly into their market.
gerrysharpe  
#72 Posted : 21 April 2016 15:00:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

There are three main higher-level qualifications in the field of health and safety. Each one has it's own advantages and disadvantages, depending on your individual needs and preferences.

NEBOSH has been the most popular qualification for those wishing to improve their knowledge and progress in health and safety for over 30 years. NEBOSH qualifications are suitable for those who are prefer to learn and recite factual information, those who are able to travel to a city or large town to sit exams, and those who prefer to be assessed with largely examination-based assessment, where answers are given in a specific style. NEBOSH have a general certificate at Level 3 - which is equivalent to A-level standard, and a general diploma at Level 6 - which is equivalent to degree level standard.


NVQ - National Vocational Qualifications - are available at two levels, broadly equivalent to NEBOSH and NCRQ. An NVQ is simply an assessment of existing knowledge and skills, and does not necessarily involve any learning. These are suitable if you are already working in a safety-related role with some degree of autonomy, and simply require formal recognition of your existing knowledge and skills. Assessment is undertaken by the creation of a detailed portfolio of evidence that you will have generated in your current employment. Because of the lack of exams or assignments, they are also most suitable for those with lots of discipline, and who are able to generate a substantial quantity of written reports.


NCRQ qualifications include the same knowledge outcomes as NEBOSH, however recognising that knowledge alone does not make a competent safety professional, they also teach softer skills - such as confidently making and justifying decisions, and managing organisational and cultural change. Students are taught how to teach and problem-solve themselves, encouraging independence, rather than being given a textbook and powerpoint slides to digest and memorise. Assessment is by a series of assignments - more reflective of real life than exams - and the focus is on the application of knowledge and process that has been followed, rather than the actual final decision by the student. NCRQ qualifications are most suitable for those who prefer realistic assignments than exams or academic-style essays, those who also want to learn skills in addition to knowledge, and those who prefer learning by doing rather than memorisation of lists of facts. There is no need to be working in a safety-related environment, in contrast to NVQs.

Unlike NEBOSH, both the certificate and diploma level qualifications are at Level 6 - so that the basic principles learned in the certificate count towards one third of the full diploma. For those unsure about embarking on a Level 6 qualification from the outset, a sample of the workbook is available here for you to get an idea if the academic challenges are suitable for you.
WatsonD  
#73 Posted : 21 April 2016 15:29:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Found the copy and paste function then, I see!!
watcher  
#74 Posted : 26 April 2016 10:33:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
watcher

gerrysharpe wrote:
There are three main higher-level qualifications in the field of health and safety. Each one has it's own advantages and disadvantages, depending on your individual needs and preferences.

NEBOSH has been the most popular qualification for those wishing to improve their knowledge and progress in health and safety for over 30 years. NEBOSH qualifications are suitable for those who are prefer to learn and recite factual information, those who are able to travel to a city or large town to sit exams, and those who prefer to be assessed with largely examination-based assessment, where answers are given in a specific style. NEBOSH have a general certificate at Level 3 - which is equivalent to A-level standard, and a general diploma at Level 6 - which is equivalent to degree level standard.


NVQ - National Vocational Qualifications - are available at two levels, broadly equivalent to NEBOSH and NCRQ. An NVQ is simply an assessment of existing knowledge and skills, and does not necessarily involve any learning. These are suitable if you are already working in a safety-related role with some degree of autonomy, and simply require formal recognition of your existing knowledge and skills. Assessment is undertaken by the creation of a detailed portfolio of evidence that you will have generated in your current employment. Because of the lack of exams or assignments, they are also most suitable for those with lots of discipline, and who are able to generate a substantial quantity of written reports.


NCRQ qualifications include the same knowledge outcomes as NEBOSH, however recognising that knowledge alone does not make a competent safety professional, they also teach softer skills - such as confidently making and justifying decisions, and managing organisational and cultural change. Students are taught how to teach and problem-solve themselves, encouraging independence, rather than being given a textbook and powerpoint slides to digest and memorise. Assessment is by a series of assignments - more reflective of real life than exams - and the focus is on the application of knowledge and process that has been followed, rather than the actual final decision by the student. NCRQ qualifications are most suitable for those who prefer realistic assignments than exams or academic-style essays, those who also want to learn skills in addition to knowledge, and those who prefer learning by doing rather than memorisation of lists of facts. There is no need to be working in a safety-related environment, in contrast to NVQs.

Unlike NEBOSH, both the certificate and diploma level qualifications are at Level 6 - so that the basic principles learned in the certificate count towards one third of the full diploma. For those unsure about embarking on a Level 6 qualification from the outset, a sample of the workbook is available here for you to get an idea if the academic challenges are suitable for you.


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