davisjohn REPORTED

Delivered the IOSH Managing Safely for many years. All I can comment is when ever I delivered a re-qual my first question to the group was "what has changed in your workplace since you completed the IOSH Managing Safely course?". The universal answer was "NOTHING". 

It became clear to me Peter that many on the courses were simply ticking a corporate box, management roles which required them to successfully complete the IOSH course, but no intention of them having any input on safety once back in the workplace.

Originally Posted by: peter gotch

Thanks O'Donnell

If replicated, good for the coffers of the training providers and IOSH Services Ltd.

Not good in terms of advancing the principle that OSH should be owned by line managers. 

Not good in terms of business productivity - organisations sending staff on courses that take up a lot of otherwise productive hours to little effect.

I agree. In my honest opinion this course should be aimed as an introduction to H&S as a carreer, rather than at Operational Managers. It is not suitable for many of the attendees who will come from employers with a H&S Advisor, or even a H&S Team, and therefore have minimum involvement in the day to day application of H&S. I further believe (here comes the controversy) that it stems from the attitude of many H&S bods that they have no responsibilites for health and safety, it's all on the employer and managers.  

Hi O'Donnell, I'm also on the other side of the controversy.

Takes me back to the day I served a Prohibition Notice on a company as regards the use of a machine.

Huge factory with a full time HSE Manager.

But I asked to see the Works Manager who seemed a bit put out that I thought he should sign for the Notice.

"Who is responsible for output in this factory?"

"I am."

"Who is responsible for the quality of output in this factory?"

"I am."

"So, who is responsible for making sure that the output is done with appropriate health and safety standards?"

Didn't get an answer to that question, so said Works Manager got my standard comment about line managers owning H&S as an integral part of the job function.

An onsite H&S professional was a bit rare in those days.

However I had just done 4 years in construction and there were SOOOO many site agents who tried to make out that H&S was down to the Safety Bod even if they were a consultant who visited once a month.

Morning O'Donnell

I have always been a bit concerned when the Safety Bods have titles such as Director, Manager or Officer.

For the simple reason that such titles DO imply that these people should be managing and/or policing.

.....and there are plenty of organisations in which line managers are more than content for this to be the case.