Originally Posted by: Roundtuit

From experience you should never base fire risk control on assumption of an external resource - that appliance is not sat there 24/7 waiting for your office to call but to serve an area (it may even be withdrawn or moved over time). How do the physically infirm / unfit use these access ladders? I would suggest a competent assessor reviews your current arrangements and makes recommendations

A very fair point however our local station has 4 or 5 engines and I've never seen it empty. That of course doesn't mean that it couldn't or wouldn't happen.

I will ask our fire safety company to come in and assess but was just hoping for some pointers to legislation on this type of escape ladder.

Originally Posted by: deane5678

Originally Posted by: GutterFire

Morning All. First post and looking for some help from people in the know rather than sifting through endless Google results.

We have 3 first floor offices with no external fire escape, just one stair case leading down to the front door and main exit. There is a concern regarding means of escape in the event of the staircase being blocked.

I have heard that escape ladders such as the below are no longer legal in an office environment - can anyone confirm and/or lead me to some legislation on this?

My theory is that the policy should be to stay put with doors and windows closed until the fire brigade arrive (from 5 minutes away) but naturally, the staff in the offices are wanting soemthing they have control over.

Thanks all.

Hi,

I don't think you'll find specific legislation relating to the legality of these ladders per se, however the following should be considered:

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 states:

14. (2) (b)in the event of danger, it must be possible for persons to evacuate the premises as quickly and as safely as possible;

BS 9999 advises ( With the caveat "The following systems are not normally deemed to be acceptable as means of escape, but they may be used in some situations provided that the reliability of the method can be demonstrated to the appropriate authorities"):

14.3 Generally unacceptable means of escape

c) portable ladders and throw-out ladders

I'll let you draw your own conclusion from the above, but I think in all honesty you'd struggle to justify their implimentation for the reasons already mentioned by the previous poster...

With regards to having a 'stay put policy' in the building, this shouldn't really be a consideration in a simple office environment. In my opinion, your main concern should be to (get a competent person to) figure out the issues with the existing means of escape (as having it blocked would be a breach of the RRFSO in itself (14.(1))), and advise as necessary.

Thank you, this is very useful and pretty much confirms my suspicions regarding the portable/throw-out ladders. To clarify though, when I metioned the possibility of a staircase being blocked, this purely related to the possibility of a fire making the stairs inaccessible. This is a very low liklihood due our diligence in making sure that no fuel or ignition sources are in or under the staircase area but it has to be considered.

I'm awaiting a response from our fire safety company regarding assessing the situation officially.

Thanks for the help.

With the risk based approach to fire safety nowadays, I rarely get to say this, but NO definitely not. Thow out ladders would not be acceptable in the circumstances outlined by the OP

There is absolutely no need to provide this equipment for a building of the height you describe, and secondly the term 'Stay Put' is a generic term that describes strategies used in purpose built flats, hospitals and very tall office buildings. These premises are built with additional fire compartmentation to support such a strategy. 

And even then (as has been described), your strategy must never involve the fire brigade. Its quite simple. The occupier is responsible for the evacuation of his building and the fire service is responsible for rescues 

For a 3 storey building, its likely that a single staircase is sufficient as long as it is ‘protected’.  A protected staircase creates a place of relative safety - a safe route out of the building

• It should be separated from the rest of the building by fire resisting materials (fire resisting walls and fire doors). The fire doors should usually be kept closed as door holders are not always acceptable on a single staircase building
• The staircase must be protected all the way to an external final exit door which may require the corridor at the bottom of the staircase to be protected too. This prevents a fire on an intermediate floor spreading to the staircase for sufficient time for persons to escape.
• A fire alarm system will be required with manual call points and sounders as a minimum (cat M system)
• Ignition sources are not usually accepted in a single staircase building 3 floors + high. This includes a reception with PC etc
• Fire loading is not permitted (to stop a fire developing in the staircase) so soft furnishings, vending machines and similar 

So throw away you throw out ladder and protect your staircase!

Finally to the OP (and with the greatest respect), if you were  considering a stay put policy utilising the local fire crews to provide an escape, I would seriously ask yourself if you are competent to conduct fire risk assessments. Its a schoolboy error that could see you with a custodial sentence if it all goes pear shaped