Hi all, back again. I was wondering what level of checking people would suggest with evidencing the competency of contractors coming on site to do work? For example, I would normally - as part of the contractor control process - ask for evidence of competency, depending on what type of work they are doing; if they are going to come and say, as an example, climb a cell tower I would want rooftop safety, RF awareness, rigging and lifting certs etc or if they were going to use a MEWP, a copy of their iPAF license etc. The only reason I ask this is become sometimes a) it isn't always very clear what someone needs to produce to evidence competency and b) some of the businesses' seem a little reluctant or are 'funny' about doing so. I've asked previously for a certain company coming to carry out service work on electrical or mechanical components, and I got provided a list of the persons' credentials and the fact that they had been doing the job for X amount of years, but nothing attached to prove that. Would you take an email as 'evidence'? Or am in the right to back that company and state that doesn't constitute good enough proof? Most contractors are fine providing certs when asked, others seem difficult about it; I don't want to create a bad relationship between us and the contractor (that we've had for a good working relationship for a number of years) but at the same time, I don't want to be negligent in my duties either. Thoughts please? Thanks.

Originally Posted by: chris42

Originally Posted by: Svick1984

I've asked previously for a certain company coming to carry out service work on electrical or mechanical components, and I got provided a list of the persons' credentials and the fact that they had been doing the job for X amount of years, but nothing attached to prove that. 

 

Tonge firmly in cheek here - So what would you like to see for this, what Qualification exactly to work on mechanical /electrical equipment? and how would you like them to reference their experience? In order to try and establish competence.

64,000 dollars anyone?

I ask this in order to help the discussion progress

Chris

Hi Chris, I'm not sure, that's why I asked and I did say 'would you take the email as evidence?'. If the answer is yes, great, problem solved. If not, what would you be asking for? What do I need to ask for satisfy say, local authority or the HSE if an accident was to ensue because it transpired the person wasn't actually competent (my previously employer had this issue once or twice before).

By the way, that was a very specific example; I also meant in generality as well.

Thanks for the response; much appreciated.

I think you should be asking for documentary evidence of competency (training certs etc) where these are relevant, what training they provide their staff with, how they manage safety and health, what their record is with regards to accidents and enforcement body action, who they have appointed to oversee safety, and so on. If the nature of the work makes demonstrating competency difficult, you could always ask for references from others who have used the. I think if you try to get as much information as possible, and evaluate the quality of this, you will have gone a long way to demonstrating due diligence. Have they produced risk assessments and method statement, and what are these like? These are the sort of questions to ask. If any of them are reluctant to provide such information, draw your own conclusions, and don't use them. Simple.

Turning this on its head why do we hire contractors?

Is it for their specialist skills and experience lacking within our own business?

If we don't have these skills and experience within our business how can we judge information from others?

Its been mentioned before - to work on electrical equipment according to the regulations requires a "competent" employee but as is usual "competence" is not specified in a manner most people can process.

The HSE had a stab http://www.hse.gov.uk/competence/what-is-competence.htm but judging from the embedded links to additional guidance referring to CDM 2007

The email you received (like as CV or job application to be an employee) sounds as though it describes the combination of training  skills, experience and knowledge which is how the HSE describe "What is Competence"

Ok further to my question on your post. The reason is, I asked the same question for the specific scenario you gave awhile ago.  

If you have access to the members area the link is

http://forum.iosh.co.uk/posts/m771822-Electrical-equipment-contractors

I hope this helps. I also had a lot of help and discussion with Paul, who by now I owe several pints (in fact probably enough to make him fall over).

With regard to the general concept of how to determine competence, that is even more tricky as noted above by everyone. To an extent it goes down to gut feel, yes ok if there is some sort of trade association etc then that may help, but you will still get good and bad. The other problem it is unlikely that the H&S bod will be the one picking the contractor or placing the contract. Those that do will have other selection criteria (£).

So, who ultimately decides if they are competent, I would say the judge in court when they decide they were not competent? Which is also of no help. The only way you can satisfy yourself, is by giving new contractors a less critical job and see how they get on. But of course, you are brining them in as an expert and so you will not necessarily know the in and outs of electrical installation, but you can judge the general way they seem to be working. If you have been using someone for a few years and the machines get fix and work, they appear to you to be working in a safe manner, then record your evaluation. I will not stop them doing something stupid in future, but there is a limit of what you can do (and ask others to do) when selecting.

Some are easy, like gas work, building air con, operating a Chery picker etc, others may have more than one possible qualification to go with experience, in fact the more experience probably the older the qualification will be (ie not the latest), certainly electrical work fall into this type. Then there will be other almost unique odd ball things and that will be down to your best view and gut feel.

I think asking for references is old hat now, same as job references. Lots of companies don’t want to put anything one way or another down in writing in case of some sort of comeback IMHO only.

So, like lots of things work related, you know when you have got it right as nobody is giving you a b@11@cking for it being wrong.

Now try and write that in your ISO procedure :0)

Chris

Bump. Other query on the same subject; one of the contractors I deal with is Italian based, so when I've asked for copies of their RAMS, they've provided them in Italian (shockingly I know) which is zero good to me as I don't speak or read the langauge. Is there a requirement that when dealing with English based companies that copies have to be provided in English? I've asked the question about being provided with an English copy, but they don't have a version of it, so now I'm wondering what the next step is. Same issue with the PL schedule. Anyone come across this before? Thanks in advance.