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matelot1965  
#1 Posted : 25 April 2022 19:17:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
matelot1965

Hello would anyone have a Trans gender risk assessment they could fire across to me please ? 

Messy  
#2 Posted : 25 April 2022 21:57:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messy

How would being transgender require a RA? You might need to supply a little more info.on the task they are undertaking or why a RA is required
matelot1965  
#3 Posted : 25 April 2022 22:18:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
matelot1965

Originally Posted by: Messy Go to Quoted Post
How would being transgender require a RA? You might need to supply a little more info.on the task they are undertaking or why a RA is required

It has nothing to do with the task they are performing that willl already be covered. It's more of the psychosocial risks around being transgender e.g. Hraasment, discrimination, bullying etc. I am most certainly not an expert on the subject and was hoping someone had been down that route before

Gerry Knowles  
#4 Posted : 26 April 2022 07:40:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gerry Knowles

I know that this might not be the most popular response.  The issues around discrimination, bullying, human interactions, etc are both difficult and complex, they need to be handled with someone who has specific knowledge of the subjects and how to deal with any issues, so in this case for me its over to human resources.  I don't feel that it it can be dealt with by a doing a risk assessment. 

Just my view!!

thanks 2 users thanked Gerry Knowles for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 26/04/2022(UTC), matelot1965 on 26/04/2022(UTC)
Kloppite  
#5 Posted : 26 April 2022 08:55:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kloppite

All things being equal, Do we have RAs for straight and gay people who could be exposed to the same  "Bullying, Harrasment and Discrimination" H&S gone OTT.

thanks 1 user thanked Kloppite for this useful post.
matelot1965 on 26/04/2022(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 26 April 2022 09:06:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

As people have said this is not H&S matter. Yes, we all know that trans people can suffer discrimination, harassment, and bully in the workplace but that does not arise out of work activities but out of general social issues, which are not managed within a H&S context but fall very much into HR territory where bully etc. usually sit. I assume that the HR team have come up with an antidiscrimination, equality and diversity policy for your organisation, which includes trans and gender reassignment issues. These have be around in the public sector for at least 20 years.

thanks 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
matelot1965 on 26/04/2022(UTC), lorna on 13/05/2022(UTC)
CptBeaky  
#7 Posted : 26 April 2022 09:09:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Pretty certain that a trans specific RA would fall foul of the Equality act 2010. There should be no special measures put in place for a trans person that you wouldn't also put in place for a cis-gendered person. This would be covered by your bullying/harassment policy and covered with such terms as "discrimination, bullying or haressment based on any protected characteristics, such as age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage, pregnancy, race, religion or belief system, sex, and sexual orientation, will not be tolerated"

Then you should have a general RA in place to cover how you deal with violence at work and/or bullying/haressment.

thanks 2 users thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
matelot1965 on 26/04/2022(UTC), LancBob on 04/05/2022(UTC)
matelot1965  
#8 Posted : 26 April 2022 09:38:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
matelot1965

Hi All,

Many thanks for your responses and I think you all have made sound points.  I agree with you all and I will be no longer looking for an RA on this. Thanks

thanks 2 users thanked matelot1965 for this useful post.
peter gotch on 26/04/2022(UTC), Kate on 26/04/2022(UTC)
stevedm  
#9 Posted : 27 April 2022 21:42:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Whilst I get tha points mentioned it is worthy of noting the metal health aspects of being a transgender person...it isn't a mental health illness but it can bring upon the person anxiety and depression or they may experience gender dysphoria...which will indeed be present in the workplace and dependant on thier task is a risk worthy of consideration...

CptBeaky  
#10 Posted : 28 April 2022 09:20:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Whilst you make a very good point (almost all marginalised groups have higher rates of mental health issues, such as depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts), there isn't a way of singling out a specific group without discriminating against other people. A robust mental health policy (alongside bully, harrasment and discrimination policies) should be fully inclusive. It should offer the same protections and access to help irrelevant of who you are, within the business.

It is this that leads me to say that a specific RA for any protected characteristic is a minefield. It suggests that a company will treat different employees differently, dependant on profiling and stereotypes. Furthermore, it has the potential to make trans (or other groups subjected to specific RAs) even more discriminated against, as it could reduce the likelihood of them being employed in the first place. I cite the fact that under 18s are rarely employed in many industries due to the additional steps required, and rules in place should you employ them (for reference I am not suggesting these rules and regs are a bad thing).

To put it in a more light-hearted way, I wouldn't be happy to discover that my workplace had a "vegan Risk assessment" with such things as "may experience lower energy levels and weakness due to lack of protein" ;)

thanks 2 users thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
Roundtuit on 28/04/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 28/04/2022(UTC)
stevedm  
#11 Posted : 28 April 2022 10:40:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

mmm...and we wonder why people have mental health issues in the workplace...  well done...for trivialising something that can mean that the affected poeple turn to suicide...well done...

if you had actually read the post your mental health risk assessment should cover all these aspects

Kate  
#12 Posted : 28 April 2022 12:02:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

But you do sometimes need to treat different employees differently.  Pregnant employees have additional rights and may need additional protections, and reasonable adjustment for disability by definition involves different treatment.

Gender re-assignment is a protected characteristic.  But being cis-gender isn't, any more than not being pregnant is a protected characteristic

CptBeaky  
#13 Posted : 28 April 2022 12:03:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

If you feel I trivialised mental health and suicide in my post, I can only offer my deepest apology, it was never my intention. As a suicide survivor I find my coping mechanisms are sometimes to find dark humour in these issues. I often forget that people don't know my history, and therefore it can come across as crass and offensive.

stevedm  
#14 Posted : 28 April 2022 12:51:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

@Kate - I am not suggesting treating differently I am just saying that mental health issues for transgender people like all others should be considered...there may be safety critical roles where depression and anxiety could affect the operations...not sugesting anything more than that...occupational psychology has come on in our understanding of the workforce and thier mental health so as that develops the assessment of the impact on work activities should also develop...

Kate  
#15 Posted : 28 April 2022 12:59:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I have no argument with you, Steve!  I was responding to other posts.

stevedm  
#16 Posted : 29 April 2022 08:32:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

sorry Kate didn't want that to come across that way...we should have video chat it might be more exciting! :)

Running an ISOH twitch channel might be amusing... 

Pirellipete  
#17 Posted : 30 April 2022 08:24:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

Originally Posted by: matelot1965 Go to Quoted Post

Hi All,

Many thanks for your responses and I think you all have made sound points.  I agree with you all and I will be no longer looking for an RA on this. Thanks

I personally, wouldn't not consider the aspects of the transgender process. there are elements, depending on the type of work you do where the transition, (either way), may be affected by the work being done.

Manual handling - making sure your RA on this is comprehensive and covers EVERYONE, without offending ANYONE, and no-one can come back to you after an incident and say, Well, I shouldn't have been doing that because of my current life choices and their effects on my body ergonomics, (I may not have worded this totally PC, but hopefully it isn't upsetting anyone).

Working with chemicals - different chemicals affect the Male and Female physiology differently, you would probably have to consider this,

I, (and we all), could keep adding to this list, in today's world

So I do agree the company policy on attitudes and acceptable behaviours within the company are an HR thing, but I don't think it could be said that there are not H & S factors to be considered

GTD  
#18 Posted : 01 May 2022 17:28:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
GTD

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

sorry Kate didn't want that to come across that way...we should have video chat it might be more exciting! :)

Running an ISOH twitch channel might be amusing... 

​​​​​​​That would be boring in fairness
Kate  
#19 Posted : 02 May 2022 16:17:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

How many COSHH assessments have you ever seen, reproductive effects aside, that account for the different effects of chemicals on the physiology of males and females?

Reproductive risks can differ and are at least sometimes considered in COSHH assessments, but seem not very relevant as gender reassignment does not confer the ability to perform the reproductive role of the sex corresponding to the chosen gender.

Pirellipete  
#20 Posted : 03 May 2022 09:47:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

How many COSHH assessments have you ever seen, reproductive effects aside, that account for the different effects of chemicals on the physiology of males and females?

Reproductive risks can differ and are at least sometimes considered in COSHH assessments, but seem not very relevant as gender reassignment does not confer the ability to perform the reproductive role of the sex corresponding to the chosen gender.

I don't understand your second paragraph Kate, (My bad, not yours), But I still say that as Dysmorphia and BDD are becoming increasingly more common, and BDD is a recognised Mental Health Condition,  and that the Mental Health of your workforce has to be considered and Risk Assessed -

https://www.hse.gov.uk/stress/mental-health.htm

I think it would be less than responsible not to consider the effects of your work and workplace on Transgender and BDD personnel.

It maybe that no action/mitigation is required, but you are still required to show you have considered if any risk exists, (Physically and Mentally)

Kate  
#21 Posted : 03 May 2022 10:57:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

My second paragraph could be distilled to "Trans women can't get pregnant and trans men can't fertilise an egg, so the chemicals that can interfere with these processes aren't relevant"

Nothing to do with mental health.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
IanDakin on 03/05/2022(UTC)
peter gotch  
#22 Posted : 03 May 2022 13:50:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Pirellipete, in principle I agree with your sentiments.

However, given that I would venture that only a small minority of UK employers have done work-related stress risk assessments that are worth the paper (or virtual space) they are written on, it would perhaps be good for them to learn to walk before getting into the details of specific at risk groups of workers.

In contrast, Kate makes reference to an issue that is well researched and documented. Women of reproductive capability can be exposed to risks to mother and/or child.

IanDakin  
#23 Posted : 03 May 2022 16:50:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin

A couple of points.  1. HSE do expect companies to apply the management standards as stress and poor metal health are a foresseable risk at work.  2. On protected characteristics under the Equalities Act. CIS-gender is not a recognised term. The term best used is sex. Sex (male and female) is a protected charateristic, so dicrimination on this basis is illegal - women and men can't be discriminated agains with the exception of certain limited circumstances. For example a trans woman who was told they could not dress how they wish at work would be protected due to their sex (male) being legally protected. Gender reasignement - through a gender reassignement certificate - is also a protected charateristic. However, trans and transexual are not the same under the Equalities Act.  The EHRC commission stated "Protected characteristics - These are age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation." Hope this helps with leagl framing. 

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