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daphne@johnluffman.co.uk  
#1 Posted : 15 September 2024 12:16:42(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
daphne@johnluffman.co.uk

Hi I have carried out a H&S audit on a childrens home where there is a cellar in the property. The cellar is accessed infrequently but may need to be by an electrician for example, or by staff very infrequently as it is used for some storage. The cellar only has 1 exit up some stone stpes into the house. There is no external exit. I think there should be a fire extinguisher in the cellar so that a route can be cleared to this exit in an emergency, but if a fire extinguisher is installed that would mean staff accessing the cellar frequently to carry out extinguisher checks. Is it ok to check an extinguisher less frequently, between annual inspections, in such a case? Or is there a better solution here?

Kate  
#2 Posted : 15 September 2024 14:51:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Well, if you think about why frequent inspections are usually done, it's typically because

- someone may have moved the extinguisher

- someone may have obstructed the extinguisher

- someone may have damaged the extinguisher

- someone may have let the extinguisher off

If the extinguisher is in a locked cellar, you might well be less concerned about these scenarios?

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
daphne@johnluffman.co.uk on 15/09/2024(UTC)
Messey  
#3 Posted : 15 September 2024 19:07:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

OK its not quite the same thing, but our Head Office had around 20 Server Rooms across the building that had maybe 8 to 12 racks, various electrical suplly bits and bobs and air handling equipment 

A previous FRA had required a CO2 in each Server room which at a first glance sounds sensible But ike the cellar in this case, the Server Rooms were locked and access limited to a few staff. This created issues for Estates when servicing the extinguishers and Fire Wardens when checking them.

So I had them moved into the corridor outside. Problem solved and I reckon its safer for an IT boffin (or  electrician) to leave the room, find the extinguisher and go back in, as it prevents tunnel vision when determining whether to stay and deal with the fire or wther to leave. Is this something you can do with this cellar. It might not be strictly compliant with BS and other guidance, but you can justify it in your FRA

thanks 1 user thanked Messey for this useful post.
daphne@johnluffman.co.uk on 15/09/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 16 September 2024 08:39:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You dont mention the ages of the children (prone to sneaking off / hiding or miss-using equipment).

You dont mention if a fire alarm is present in the property and if there is a sounder in the cellar.

Given the occassional nature of staff entering the area and that trades persons such as electricians would be unfamliar with the location and the use of any supplied extinguisher personally I would ensure there is an audible / visual alarm for persons present and at all other times the door is firmly locked.

You may wish to consider if it is appropriate to be storing potentially flammable materials in an unobserved area of a residence where I presume persons are sleeping.

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 16 September 2024 08:39:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You dont mention the ages of the children (prone to sneaking off / hiding or miss-using equipment).

You dont mention if a fire alarm is present in the property and if there is a sounder in the cellar.

Given the occassional nature of staff entering the area and that trades persons such as electricians would be unfamliar with the location and the use of any supplied extinguisher personally I would ensure there is an audible / visual alarm for persons present and at all other times the door is firmly locked.

You may wish to consider if it is appropriate to be storing potentially flammable materials in an unobserved area of a residence where I presume persons are sleeping.

daphne@johnluffman.co.uk  
#6 Posted : 16 September 2024 09:38:28(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
daphne@johnluffman.co.uk

Hi thank you for the replies. The children are teens. There is a fire alarm with a sounder in the cellar. No flammable substances stored in the cellar at all. The cellar is kept locked.

My concern is that even if someone hears the alarm in the cellar that won't help them if the only exit is blocked by the fire.

Is it therefore better to have an extinguisher in the cellar, which is inspected annually but not checked weekly/monthly because the reasons for checking won't apply (as in response above)? In the unlikely event of a fire which blocks the exit from the cellar while someone is in there they would then have an extinguisher available which may help them clear a path through the exit.

The risk is very low but the consequences are potentially fatal. I think having identified the risk I need to make sure there is something in place.

firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 16 September 2024 10:59:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

An extinguisher sited at the top of the steps inside the cellar may be the best option.

Not far to enter the cellar to check the exy and if anyone is in the cellar when a fire occurs the exy is on the way out and the person can then choose whether to evacuate or use the exy to tackle the fire, after raising the alarm of course.

Also anyone choosing to enter the cellar to investigate an alarm can take the exy with them.

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