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Lindoor  
#1 Posted : 19 September 2024 21:35:17(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Lindoor

I have been asked to risk assess a High Voltage room and make an addendum to a Fire Risk Assessment.  The Fire Risk Assessment was undertaken by someone else and I feel uncomfortable with making an addendum to someone else’s FRA.  Can you even do an ‘addendum’?

Is there is a legal implication in ‘changing someone else’s FRA’ and possibly taking ownership of that previous FRA when adding to it.  What if they have failed to pick some risk up in their FRA that you are adding to, does it become your legal liability as you added to the FRA?

Although the organisation I work for has Crown indemnity, should there be a fire resulting in a fatality and the FRA came into question what would be the position?

Kate  
#2 Posted : 20 September 2024 00:05:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I don't see the problem here.  By the very nature of an addendum, there is a clear and traceable separation between what was the work of the previous assessor and what is your work.  By making an addendum you are not changing or challenging or accepting the assessment but just, well, adding to it and clearly you would be responsible for what you had added.

thanks 3 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 20/09/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 20/09/2024(UTC), MikeKelly on 20/09/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 20 September 2024 07:28:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I agree with Kate that any addendum will by its very nature address its limited scope

Addendum to assessment XYX originally prepared by & Dated

Reason for addendum

Assessment

Signed & Dated by yourself.

Ignoring the Crown Immunity aspect I am getting a hint that you are not feeling confident with this request.

If it is not within your personal competence you should rightly refuse especally if it is merely the case someone does not want to pay the origial assessor for a follow up visit - after all any FRA is only valid on the day it is written and does rquire regular review.

thanks 8 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 20/09/2024(UTC), Kate on 20/09/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 20/09/2024(UTC), MikeKelly on 20/09/2024(UTC), A Kurdziel on 20/09/2024(UTC), Kate on 20/09/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 20/09/2024(UTC), MikeKelly on 20/09/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 20 September 2024 07:28:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I agree with Kate that any addendum will by its very nature address its limited scope

Addendum to assessment XYX originally prepared by & Dated

Reason for addendum

Assessment

Signed & Dated by yourself.

Ignoring the Crown Immunity aspect I am getting a hint that you are not feeling confident with this request.

If it is not within your personal competence you should rightly refuse especally if it is merely the case someone does not want to pay the origial assessor for a follow up visit - after all any FRA is only valid on the day it is written and does rquire regular review.

thanks 8 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 20/09/2024(UTC), Kate on 20/09/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 20/09/2024(UTC), MikeKelly on 20/09/2024(UTC), A Kurdziel on 20/09/2024(UTC), Kate on 20/09/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 20/09/2024(UTC), MikeKelly on 20/09/2024(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 20 September 2024 08:48:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Hello Lindoor and  welcome to the forum

There is one  mantra that regular users of this forum make which is:” risk assessment is process not a form”. More importantly it is a process that the organisation carries out to make sure that they are compliant  with the relevant legislation and more importantly ensure that work activities are carried out in a safe manner. As far as the Fire Safety Order is concerned the  risk assessment,  has no fixed  format or anything so as long as it is clear you can add an addendum; you don’t get extra marks for a nice form!

You mention Crown Indemnity, that usually refers to the fact that government department do not have Employer’s Liability insurance; so if someone sues the government for negligence etc   the treasure coughs up the money. Crown Immunity, refers to the legal principle that the government(the Crown)   cannot prosecute itself, so although the Fire Safety order applies to Crown premises the bits about being prosecuted or inspectors issuing notices does not apply. Instead the organisation involved is censured and the responsible people have their cards marked. So for example a Knighthood is down graded to a CBE, which hurts career civil servants.  

thanks 3 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Roundtuit on 20/09/2024(UTC), Kate on 20/09/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 20/09/2024(UTC)
firesafety101  
#6 Posted : 20 September 2024 10:52:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Originally Posted by: Lindoor Go to Quoted Post

I have been asked to risk assess a High Voltage room and make an addendum to a Fire Risk Assessment.  The Fire Risk Assessment was undertaken by someone else and I feel uncomfortable with making an addendum to someone else’s FRA.  Can you even do an ‘addendum’?

Is there is a legal implication in ‘changing someone else’s FRA’ and possibly taking ownership of that previous FRA when adding to it.  What if they have failed to pick some risk up in their FRA that you are adding to, does it become your legal liability as you added to the FRA?

Although the organisation I work for has Crown indemnity, should there be a fire resulting in a fatality and the FRA came into question what would be the position?

Who has asked you to risk assess the room and what is their reason?

Why not simply risk assess the room as a seperate risk assessment and mention the situation in your findings.

peter gotch  
#7 Posted : 20 September 2024 11:57:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Lindoor

I am with others on the principle that there is no problem with an Addendum to a risk assessment.

But with one caveat.

Assuming this HV room existed at the time of the previous FRA, what did that FRA say about both the HV room and how it could impact the rest of the building?

As whether or not it existed, it might well have implications for the validity of the whole FRA as the risks that you deal with in the Addendum are very unlikely to be entirely separate from the risks pertaining to the building as a whole.

Now suppose for a moment that this HV room is in the Basement. The risks at and from the HV room will almost certainly be relevant to other parts of the Basement and likely Ground Floor too. Whether or not the risks from the HV room are refevant to the Attic floor would depend on multiple variables such as services in the building.

So at the same time as doing a specific FRA for the HV room, it seems to me essential that this be done with an eye to the content of the existing FRA for the building and what amendments to that might be needed.

From your personal perspective it would be important to clearly set out what the limits of your scope of work may be.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
MikeKelly on 20/09/2024(UTC)
Messey  
#8 Posted : 23 September 2024 21:40:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

I agree with the consensus here that a addendum will be fine as long as it is dated and contains a note that it is the recorded result of a FRA review of the HV area

Article 9 of the Fire Safety Order makes it plain a review is necessary if there’s any significant change to record - as well as ‘regularly’.  The FRA belongs to the Responsible Person and not the person or entity that compiled it, so as long as you are competent and acting on behalf of the RP, fill your boots and make as many changes as you want, when you want, as long as they are justified 

We made a change to how we record FRA Reviews a few years back. We have over 100 premises from high risk huge and complex buildings, to small 300m2 premises that have no permanent occupancy 

We were completing a new full FRA review report on every time (mostly annually) which frankly seemed a waste of time. Instead we (I) now write a full ‘parent’ FRA report for each premises and then a slim ‘update’ report for reviews. It’s around 1 to 5 pages and is repeated for 2 years, before fully re writing the entire report on year 4. Low risk premises may go 5 or 6 years between full re-writes 

In effect we use addendums such as the OP discusses as part of our FRA process and the process has been accepted by fire enforcement authorities 

I dont understand your mention of Crown Immunity as Crown Premises still have to comply with fire safety legislation and can be issued with Enforcement Notices etc. Its true the RP cannot be fined or imprisoned, but a Crown Censure can be applied instead. I worked in Crown Premises for 15 years and Crown Censures are taken very seriously, in that receiving one will often be career ending for those help responsible. 

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