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Posted By Alexander Falconer
Just out of curiosity
The range of H&S advertised roles within the various publications, agencies, web ads, etc seem to be commensurate with the following qualifications (and dependent on location)-
Nebosh Certificate only £15 - £22K
Nebosh Cert/Tech IOSH £20 - £27K
Diploma 1/Tech IOSH/Grad IOSH £22 - £30K
Diploma 2/PGD/BSc/MSc/CMIOSH £25K min
This is irrespective of location and add ons
Would all seem to think this is a fair assumption, or am I totally of the scale here?
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Posted By Richie
Alexander,
No, you are not right.
There are many SHE professionals within the public services etc. who take home less than 25K with good quals. I have a PgC, currently studdying on MSc. My wage is less than £25K, and will not receive any raise when I win my MSc.
I would say that a significant number of SHE professionals are in the same position.
If someone knows how to 'board the gravy train' please enlighten me!
Richie
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Posted By Stuart Henderson
Alex,
A good topic- are we talking about advertised or take home pay.
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Posted By Stuart Henderson
"Alexander" = apologies!
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Posted By Richie
Alexander,
Please excuse me. I wrote 'take home less than £25K', I meant 'top line £25K'. Sorry, It's been a long day, which will not end for a while yet.
Richie
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Posted By Keith E
Alex
Don't go winding people up again...
In my view, if you have the full Diploma or equivalent by whatever route (ok not going there again), if you are on less than £32-35k, you are being ripped off.
Luckily for me, I'm not being ripped off...
I refer to my previous posts, whats the point of the extra study, if it doesn't get you the rewards etc. Have looked at doing an MSc a few times - but the fundametal question is, 'is it going to make a significant difference to my salary - answer, probably not.
Unless you really are a newbie/kean person, work only has one objective.....to permit one to live and enjoy whatever freedom/hobbies you have...now then, just off to buy my new batting pads for the new season and some more tanks for my wargaming collection (off to invade Russia at the weekend - anyone fancy commanding a German tank company, against loads of T34s?)
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Alexander et al
Although you are making a generalsiation I still cannot concurr with you. The wage scale will differ slightly according to the region but in the SE I would scale it as such: Nebosh Gen/Tech IOSH 20-30K; MIOSH/CMIOSH 30-40K. Other factors such as experience and degrees will add other benefits. For example, an established and experienced H&S Manager with CMIOSH could expect a salary of 40K and anything up to 60K.
Regards
Ray
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Posted By Charley Farley-Trelawney
Am with Keith & Raymond on this; Chartered Member on less than 40k, unthinkable!!!!
CFT
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Posted By EE
CFT / others
If it is unthinkable for Chartered Member to be on less than 40k - what would the bottom line for a more experiecned Chartererd Fellow be on???
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Posted By Homer
I'll throw my hat into the arena on this one.
I believe it's not just about paper quals, experience can't be bought on the cheap. Many of the Safety Advisors I know have trade backgrounds and can provide hands on experience, many have QA role also.
I believe Safety is one of the most under rated professions in the UK, a good procative, qualified and experienced Safety Advisor should start at 35K and with additional experience 35K plus.
Experience tells me employers will use every reason in the book to pay less, or not reward additional skills, in our profession including the passing of examinations in recognised skill.
What price safety? How can employers undervalue the prevention of a fatality or serious injury?
Okay I am on my soap box but it's something I feel strongly about we are worth every penny.
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
CFT your comment CMIOSH on less than £40K - unthinkable???
Count at least 6 SHP/Recruitment adverts looking for CMIOSH - all less than £40K - who fills these posts then?
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
Reiterates the message that homer posted
Still think employers don't know what they want
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Posted By Charley Farley-Trelawney
A
We are a long way off educating the employment populace that the cost of H&S is on the BoP one of the best investments they could make, I am not getting into the lecture mode that I do with boards regarding the cost of H&S, my comment, one which I feel many will agree with is based upon the fact that Chartered Accountants, Surveyors etc do not DIRECTLY account for a persons safety on a daily basis; with that in mind of course we are worth paying for. As to who applies for the lower positions? Perhaps younger practitioners wishing to gain the experience to run along side their academic qualifications.
I imagine at the lower scale many will gain some good quality hands-on experience and move upwards and onwards. Lets be really honest here, it is a minority of employers that can justify having a chartered H&S practitioner exclusively looking after OSH. Usually its what other tricks do you perform!
Here endeth my sermon on why we should be duly recognised for the responsibility we have each and every day!
Charles
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
I think part of the wage issue is the scale of difference between certian ads. The question posed 'who will these posts' well...no one actually. If the job is any good, including a commensurate salary, then they do not usually need to be advertised. Also, although a position might require a CMIOSH at 28 - 32K, the fact is it is still negotiable. Just as any individual will ask for more than they think they will get, a company will advertise less than it is willing to pay.
Regards
Ray
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Posted By gham
Employers in many cases have no idea. I went to and interview at a low risk site, warehousing on one level they where looking for NEBOSH Gent Cert atleast plus 5 years exp for £37K.
A good on the ball ops manager could have coped with it i said no cause i get bored if i have nothing to do all day
You are only worth somewhere in between what your next employer is prepared to and how much your existing one will cough up to keep you
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Posted By Charley Farley-Trelawney
I admire your candour Gham. Perhaps you could have taken the Ops manager job, incorporated H&S and achieved a higher salary.
CFT
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Posted By gham
Thanks
I didn't want to do the guy out of a job, besides another issue is that they kept saying things like 'we want to appear to be doing this and that' "appear" sounded like the where full of guff
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
The comments made by gham, are only too familiar - the more experience you gain, the wiser you become, and separate the proactive companies from those who want to appear to be doing something (albiet minimal)for the sake satisfying the HSE.
Needless to say, a few of my esteemed fellow H&S practitioners would also lay claim to the same.
Fortunately for me, current employer does not meet these values - very proactive and supportive (perhaps thats why I now enjoy H&S once more - I suppose the good salary package and perks also helps too)
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Posted By Elaine298
I have been currently working in london as a planning supervisor and as a h&s advisor for 1.5 years. I also have a bcs (hons) in ohs and nebosh in construction. What salary should i be on?
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
Elaine, the advertised roles I spoke of seem to put the norm at around £27 - £35K, given the cost of living & high house prices, I personally would baulk at this
In light of this, there are others available in excess of this -
Basildon - £40k
Central London £45K + Car
Central London £200 day
I suppose at the end of the day, it boils down to how well you can sell yourself.
A key recruitment agency based in the M25 corridor, actually sent me a spec for a post in excess of £47K - 10 years ago, this I would jump at, however based in Scotland, having young family etc, etc had to reluctantly refuse
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Posted By snt
I have to submit, that most of the company advertising for H&E roles are doing it as panic measure to show that they are complying and boost their egos. It is similar with IT before the bubble burst, and like TQM and now ISO. Most of adverts are for Safety Advisor, and a Manager can easily send a Safety Rep on NEBOSH Gen Cert, and the Safety Rep deployed to the job+regular job, this time with a slight pay increase. This ensures continuity and putting somebody familiar with the business on the role. Major organisations are employing Safety Manager with added responsibilities like Quality Assurance, Environmental, Process and Performance Improvement, Off Shore etc.
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Posted By Matt Terry
It will be interesting to see the knock on effect of insurance premiums being reduced if a company employs a Chartered Safety Professional.... It may be the start of a new beginning for us.
People must also be aware of the different sectors involved, it is fair to say that construction safety would pay more than factory safety. (not that there is anything wrong with factories)
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Posted By Karen Heatley
Sorry to say guys, but you lot down South don't know how good you've got it! Come live in the real world for a month or so, you will then see that it is hard to make ends meet in the Safety profession. I have over 8 years H&S experience, and, if I don't mind saying, am very good at my job. I work for the Public Sector in Scotland, I get a pittence! I am Chartered and fully qualified with a degree and up to Diploma level in H&S quals. Please stop moaning about the salary - I get £26k and have to accept that!
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
Karen, whilst you are a chartered pratitioner working in the public sector, no one is making you accept your salary.
You are perhaps selling yourself short. Again this is probably a perfect example of employers (good and bad) not fully realising the value of H&S.
Whilst your background is within public sector, remember your skills are transferrable and you should be in a position to renegotiate, otherwise move on to where you would be better appreciated (in terms of salary). In saying this, "the grass is not always green on the other side" - believe me I have been in this situation and got my fingers burnt!
I also know of a former colleague and manager who is CMIOSH is earning in excess of £40K within the public sector. Also my previous role was advertised for £25K (less than what I previously earned) and the pre requisite was a NEBOSH Certificate???
Funny old world!
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Posted By Keith E
Karen
Once you have traded off your work life balance, ease/cost of getting to work issues - then consider voting with your feet!
I don't think us in the middle of the country (Yorks for me) are getting ripped off that badly- its the people in the true south/London/Home Counties etc, with the stupid house prices/cost of living who are getting ripped off.
From what I can see, salaries in the South, are overall no better (or certainly not much better) than the Yorks/Lancs area etc, yet they are paying way over the odds for housing/cost of living.
Therefore, their mortgage/salary (and hence disposable income) is less than people in the north.
For me, I see no cost benefit in moving south - I'm happy in the grim north.
Having said that I do think you are underpaid - but working conditions/holiday entitlements/flexitime are far better in the public sector than private - I have worked for a while in the public sector, so I think I do know what I am talking about.
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Posted By Martin Keeler
In my experience, happiness in your work far out weighs money. Remember guys money is the route of all evil. God bless you all.
Dr Keeler
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
Happiness doesn't pay the bills!
Happiness, to me is weekends, thank goodness its Friday.
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Posted By Keith E
Quite agree with Alex & Martin - life is a compromise for most people. Family/happiness etc comes first, but it does have to be paid for!!
Hence, pay/reward also comes into the equation. Too little pay, makes it difficult to enjoy the important things in life!
There comes a point where too little pay by an employer is simply taking the mick out of a persons efforts to get qualified etc (in whatever job role)
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
Just a little thought from Karens posting, if a CMIOSH in her case working within the public sector is earning £26K, would it be fair to assume that a Chartered Accountant be earning the same rate? Or assuming within local government, a Chartered Architect (Housing) earning same.
Me thinks NOT!
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Posted By ITK
I am MIOSH and live and work in Yorkshire and earn £24K as a Local Government officer, Monday to Friday, flexi time, reduced health club membership, pension scheme, 6 weeks holidays.
Yes I know I could get more in the private sector, but adding up all of the above it doesnt seem too bad also travelling up or down the M1 twice daily doesnt really appeal.
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
I find pay scales in and out of health and safety quite interesting. Much has been made of the Chartered status thing but I wonder how much it will improve the pay and kudos of those gaining it.
My wife works as an executive PA in NW London, although very experienced and good at her job she has no formal qualifications such as a degree. Her salary...32K plus company bonus, which has topped her salary to 35K. I think that h&s practitioners are generally under paid and under valued.
Ray
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Posted By Alan Haynes
Dr Keeler says "money is the route of all evil."
I prefer the original [as I remember it from my Sunday School days]
"The love of money us the root of all evil" -
so there is no problem in earning what you can - the problem occurs when you are obsessed about getting more.
Also, I find that in my industry, what counts [often even more than qualifications] is experience. Get the experience and the salary will follow.
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Posted By Jos
Money is very important to me. But when I read the number of posts about people finding it hard to find a full time H&S position I often feel glad for what I have...
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Posted By Keith E
Have to agree with Raymond regarding his comment about the difference that being Chartered will make to salaries etc.
I remain unconvinced by IOSH central, and the claims made for being CMIOSH in terms of extra pennies etc.
As I have previously said, we are all playing a silly game ... couldn't give a stuff what letters anyone has after their names - but have to play (the game)to get a half decent living salary.
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Posted By gham
A good proportion is luck, but you won't get anywhere without perserverance and determination
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Posted By JAI
I live in the North East England work as a full time health and safety officer with 3 manufacturing Sites
My salary is £20,000 on top and i am MIOSH (still some of us out there)
Would you say i was being robbed or conned
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Posted By Robert Paterson
Hi Jai
A bit of both I think. Everybody neds to start somewhere. The only way has to be up.
Regards
Robert
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Posted By Robert Paterson
Hi Jai
A bit of both I think. Everybody needs to start somewhere. The only way has to be up.
Regards
Robert
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Posted By Martin Keeler
Alan,
My comment was light hearted as it's Friday!
But on a serious note, I see many people in the process of mental breakdown after being driven by money and material things. We do need money to live, but it's the life style balance we need to get right.
Dr Keeler
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Posted By snt
I think the problems with jobs and salary still boiled down to clear cut level of proficiency in H&E, Diploma 1, Diploma 2, MIOSH, CMIOSH, FMIOSH, General Certificate. As an employer, how do I know who is qualified and what level is their competence and what are the equivalence posts. So in essence, salary in our profession depends on perception of the employer to the post, the qualification and what they are willing to pay. By the way, why most of the posts looking for "ADVISOR"?. What are they advising? I prefer something like Health and Safety Officer/Manager/Lead. So in a way, to a company advisor can be a consultant or "GURU". I stand to be enlightened on these.
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