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Posted By Alexander Falconer
Jai, I would say you were being robbed.
Prior to changing my employers last December, virtually all my working life had been within the Manufacturing sector (Forging, Electronics, Sheet Metal, Silicon Wafer, Automotive & Food) - the last 12 years involved with HSE (oh and not forgetting QA too, which was the sole role for 5 years previous to HSE) - Multiskilled, eh'
Going back to the point, apart from first 2 years involved with HSE I have never retained a salary of below £23K - and only holding a certificate at the time 10 years ago.
Now 10 years more experience under my belt, a bit older and wiser - I can perhaps look back now and cringe that I wouldn't get out of bed for that now.
Although I hold my self esteemed CMIOSH colleagues in high regard, I believe if you have the experience, you can justify the salary. Qualifications, to me only prove to employers what you are really capable of achieving - hence why some CMIOSH are in senior positions commensurating with high remuneration.
Nowadays, I don't look at HSE roles advertising less than £32K.
After all I am only a lowly Tech IOSH based in Scotland, the right role is out there if you have the determination to look for them, and apply yourself, employers CAN and WILL pay for the right person.
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Posted By Steven
After reading all the comments it seems that there are a few disgruntled people who think they are not paid enough and some that are happy with their remuneration.
My thoughts are that if you are not happy with your pay, discuss it with your employer or find alternative employment. It can sometimes be very difficult to get your employer to raise your salary (sorry impossible!!) and if you cannot find alternative employment that pays more in your area, this would probably suggest something.
I personally love my job and feel I am probably under paid, but I am in my early years in H&S and many will know how hard it is to get that first step into H&S.
I have got into H&S for 2 reasons – because I want to make a difference and to earn a reasonable wage.
I was earning 19k a year as a production manager and doing 60 hours a week, the pressure put on these positions is immense and had I not been made redundant would not have looked at changing my job. I now do 37 hours a week and earn just as much, my life has improved two fold.
Steve
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Posted By jacq
Hmm
On the thread of being robbed. I work in the north of Scotland, earn £22k top line (and until January was on £18k until I said I was leaving). I am CMIOSH, have the specialist Dip in Environmental Management, the IQA diploma in quality assurance and have just completed the MSc at Bristol University. Jobs are not that easy to come by up here!!!!
Hide the sharp knives for the rest of the afternoon
Jacq
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Posted By Amanda
Hi all
Looking at the thread it looks to me like there may be a bit of a gender imbalance when it comes to salary levels. Obviously not in all cases!.
Also to me it does appear to be easier to slot other professions in to neat pigeon holes when it comes salaries; where as with H&S there doesn't seem to be much reasoning behind salary levels.
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Posted By Paul Devlin
I have to say ladies and gents I'm slightly staggered at what the pay is for some of the "professionals" in H&S. I work in an industry which is very undervalued and the people on the front line earn a lot more than some of the posters and they are in what some would class as menial jobs and its in the public sector.
I dont see the point in striving for the qualifications if your not going to use them to enhance your standard of living.
I know its not always about the money and to be honest as dull as it may sound we all have to have an interest, if not a passion for H&S to be willing to do the job.
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Posted By Glyn Atkinson
On a slightly sideways track - how many of you fine H&S personnel had to initally take a drop in salary to find a place in Health and Safety, and how long before you reached back up to your previous work's pay rate ?
- Did you reach the pay rate?
- Are you now on more, comparatively speaking?
-Is the career path worthwhile now that you've made the move?
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
In response to Glyn's sidetrack query
I originally was a QA engineer, who becoming bored with ISO 9000 & the likes, had H&S added into the job description, I gained the NEBOSH Cert, stayed with firm for another 2 years, before moving into a Higher Risk industry (A well known Japanese, Silicon Wafer manufacturing Company on a 12 month temp contract) and slightly more money.
Boy! was it worthwhile (the next job offer came the day before my contract finished - talk about panicking!) - best thing I ever did, experience was invaluable. Each move since then has been onwards and upwards. Salary package has more than trebled since I was a heady young QA engineer (£11.5K back in 1993) all them years ago with a stingy company (no longer in business) who manufactured forged fittings for the Oil & Gas industry.
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Posted By snt
If you are on less than £20000.00 p/a, take a look at this. No qualification needed.
Refuse Loader
£391.49 per week inc. bonus
Ref: PR30363A
You will be based within our Recycling Operational Services.
There is an expansion of the Recycling Service allowing for an increase in area coverage of all borough households being given the opportunity to participate in recycling their domestic waste. This in turn will reduce waste levels directed to landfill.
You will be required to support the Council’s aim and encourage and help improve awareness of waste minimisation and recycling. In turn you will encourage customer participation within the Recycling scheme. You will also have the ability to work as part of a team.
Integrated working amongst the employees working within this area is essential and will play a very big part in the success of the
Recycling Service. Although employed as refuse loaders, we are looking for staff to assist in the service delivery by helping to increase participation levels through leafleting and door knocking, delivering additional orange bags etc.
There is a requirement to work some Saturdays.
Full training will be provided in all operational aspects of the
Recycling Service.
Closing date: 24th March 2006.
Newham
Equal opportunities for all.
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Posted By Keith E
e'nuff said
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Posted By Paul Craythorne
To all those whingeing about their salaries, if you are competent then do something about it and get another job.
Why whinge on the forum?
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Posted By Vicky Pye
I am MIOSH, work in the Public Sector & am on less than 25k
Damn the government !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted By Lesley Palmer
Hi all
You will never know just how pertinent this this for me right now!!
I work for the NHS in the operating theatre, the NHS is currently undergoing a pay reform (Adgeda for Change) . My title is Health and Safety Lead / Endoscopy specialist, I do majority R/A's research and arrange training, advise on all aspects H&S undertake annual audit and H&S Planning, and I am Chairperson for the H&S directorate committee. This represents 40% of my time ( on paper, but I have to do a lot of overtime and work at home) the other 60% I am Endoscopy Specialist.
Before the pay review I was earning £18,500.All pay awards had been susended since October 2004. I recently did the NEBOSH cert. and passed, I have applied for IOSH tech status (as I have over 5 years experience and previous union training). For all of this the pay review body reduced my salary to £16,400. the NEBOSH went against me because it is level 3 and they assumed to be of little value maybe NVQ3 at most.
I have only one chance at my appeal. I need all the help I can get to convince the panel that NEBOSH is a worth while qualification and nothing like an NVQ3 (I've done them and compared to NEBOSH they are a walk in the park). So just where does the NEBOSH Cert IOSH tech sit in relation to other qualifications? If anyone can help I would love to hear from you.
Good luck to all
Lesley (I'm a girlie Lesley by the way)
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Posted By marcus
Lesley,
My advice would be to leave the NHS as soon as possible, my wife and I did several years ago and have not looked back. We both now work in the private sector and have almost tripled our incomes .
Your NEBOSH certificate alone is worth at least £20k to any decent employeer, if you cannot find a suitable H&S post try somtheing different.
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
It is not a matter of 'whingeing about salaries' but a discussion on the pros and cons of salaries. After all, that is what this forum is all about is it not?
Ray
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Posted By Mr T Wilcock
Amazed,
53 responses so far about salary.
Take a look again of the posts of people looking for a start,
then tell me how hard done by some of you are.
Discussion, yes.... show me yours and i'll show you mine....no
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Posted By Bob Youel
I was earning >£40K many years ago - theres lots of £ out there if you 'REALLY' want it - councils and the like [used to] offer more perks but rate H&S as low kudos therefore low rates - recently a friend went from £45K in private industry for doing less work and with less responsibility and same quals
your actual academic quals have no real status re £ its the company/industry you work for and your standing therein - councils etc want high qualifications and love lots of initials etc behind names for everything - but few [ especially H&S] get the high £ that should come with the quals
Bob Y - CMIOSH MIIRSM MIIM AIEMA etc
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Posted By TBC
I know of someone who has no NEBOSH cert or other paper quals, but has lots of experience, self-taught reading and other in-house training with large organisations. He works for a large company and is in the £30-£35k range - They appreciate him and his work, not bits of paper with letters after his name.
It's a mixed bag out there!
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Posted By Merv Newman
coming a bit late to this thread and admitting that I haven't read all 50+ posts in detail, it seems that some of us have been able to get fairly well paid and interesting jobs, and others are being screwed left-handedly into the ground.
I do think that "chartered" will eventually see salary levels rise overall but the bell curve will always be there.
Remembering back to my last employ as a salaried consultant for a multi-national I know that at the time I was being paid more than anyone at the site where I had my office, except the plant manager. (manufacturing, 500 employees, 1 LTI in 10 years)
Nowadays I get paid whatever my customers think I am worth. If they don't like what I ask then they can always go else where.
There was one posting arguing for the advantages of H&S "lead" over advisor. Wrooong. The H&S "lead" on any site is the senior manager. Other managers will follow the leader but not necessarily the H&S professional who advises on what needs to be done and how to do it.
Discuss (on a cold, sunny winter afternoon) (or even tomorrow if you are not out of bed yet)
Merv
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Posted By trevreynolds
I wont even say what I am being paid for HSW. I am covering 2 jobs and got told I would get £1K a year extra to act as a Health and Safety Assistant even though I am doing all aspects of Health and Sasfety within the business. I am only Nebosh Certificate but have held this for 8 years nearly now.
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Posted By Steve Kirk
If you want to see bad wages then check out the HSE.
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
My understanding is the HSE are eventually well paid, initially when starting the salary is not that great, however the training and development is second to none. Once the initial training period (2 years) is completed and are given a 3 year placement the earning potential rises.
The starting salary is why many of us just cannot afford to move (downwards) into the HSE and is ideally suited to graduates.
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Posted By tani
I can do with some advice too..I graduated last year with a Bsc in Safety, Health and Environmental Management. During my studies i got a years experience in the constuction industry. I have had problems getting jobs due to the lack of experience. I now have a job as a health and safety advisor, and also manage other work. I have been at this place for 6 months and taken over all health and safety issues and have made a difference and am still on £16,000. At first i took it on for the experience but now am looking for a rise due to the amount of work im doing and now that i have techIOSH. Should i be looking for something else
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Posted By Keith E
Well what do you think? £16k is taking the mick, even being newly qualified/new graduate.
Most starting salaries, I would say are usually in the £18 - 24k range.
Work for money - not charity
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Posted By inatizz
Hello all,
Has anyone considered reviewing and using the 2005 salary survey as a base line comparison?
It was published 01/09/05 by Macmillan Davies Hodes, and is available from the IOSH website just do a search for salary..
As for what an employer will pay, is it not human nature to get the best value for your money?
I feel its down to how you package/sell yourself, manage your expectations and what you will accept.
If your not happy with your package as someone has already pointed out bring it to your employers attention or it is time for a move!!
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Posted By garyh
In my experience the following applies:-
1) Qualifications do not equal salaries although there may be a rough correlation.
2) You are paid on responsibility and what you achieve / contribute.
3) If you don't like your job / think your underpaid - walk and get another job. Complaining or being fed up achieves nothing.
4) Life isn't fair!
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Folks,
Well, nothing like dosh to get people started! I know I (Dip2, CMIOSH, AIEMA) could get around 40K or more, I have recently thought long and hard about moving on and up, but I am staying where I am for now. Don't get me wrong, pay's not bad, and certainly much more than the levels some people are complaining about. But for me why I do what I do matters, as well as what I get out of it. I work for a Charity, and at the end of the day I get about what similarly qualified professionals in my organisation get, its enough to pay the bills and fund holidays, don't have kids so don't have to worry about paying for them, and I live in East Yorkshire.
Its not all about money, its about job satisfaction and how much my employer values me as well, and to me it matters that my labour goes towards helping need rather than a shareholder's second Jaguar,
John
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Posted By Keith E
Isn't living in East Yorkshire enough of a reason to get out and mover closer to civillisation/normal people??
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Posted By J Knight
Do you know Keith, before I moved up here I would have said the same; now all I can say is wake up and smell the fresh air!
John
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Posted By Keith E
North Yorkshire is nearly as bad - too many people with hairy palms and sloping foreheads......folks around here either interbreed or are very fond of sheep...
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Posted By J Knight
I was in South Yorkshire prior to this; in fact been there most of my life. Now when I go back to Sheffield I wonder how I coped with all the TRAFFIC!!!!!
Out here, nobody can hear you smirk,
John
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Posted By Descarte
I started H+S in my year out from uni at a oil refinery doing Occ Hygiene on 12,000 per annum (quite attractive for a student back in 2000. Qualified with a environmental degree Bsc and got my first position as an env. consultant on 14,000 in 2001, got a raise to 16,000 after 6 months and decided to go for a safety position.
My first safety job with no qualifications and a years pre grad experience was 24,000 in '02! in private sector obviously. This then took a dip back down to 21,000 working for public sector for a year+ did my nebosh cert, then I decided to go back in to oil, now I have 4 years experience NEBOSH cert and earning 30-35k 1yr contract in north scotland covering for HS+E manager.
Short story, if you are prepared to move (on my 5th job in 4 years), you can soon climb the safety ladder and earn what ever you want. And I would say generally private sector pays better than gov/public. Oh and contract work is also a lot better paid than perm, but dont get the benefits associated or security.
Doing my offshore survival course and helicopter ditching etc... soon, after this position I am aiming higher going for an offshore position or international
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Posted By trevreynolds
Thats easier said than done when you have a mortgage wife and children and need to put food on the table etc, you cannot just up roots and move.
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Posted By Elaine298
hi guys, talking about low salaries, i am working in London for 1.5 years as a planning supervisor with a bsc (hons)in EHS for £20K.
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze
CMIOSH, £25K pro rata, hours to suit childcare arrangements, time with young family (worth far more than the corresponding pay cut) and a fantastic local government pension scheme to boot (likely to change during my working life however).
Many companies tend not to understand the family angle if you're a bloke.
That's not to say I wouldn't go for a better paid role with more travel once they're at school, but the current situation suits for the minute.
I also live in one of the cheapest areas of the UK, which helps greatly.
So, no, it's not all about the take home pay all the time.
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
The pay certainly helps, however like all of us in H&S positions (chartered or not) we all know we can and are able to make a difference to the working lives of the many -
Moving off the track slighly (but still of some relevance) Do those, in the low paid public/gov/private sector find yourselves a little bit envious of a friend, neighbour or whatever, having and enjoying the trappings from a job that doesn't have the same pressures or satisfactions as your own?
Let's be truthful out there
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Posted By Adrian Clifton
Alexander.
I work in Local Authority, with MIOSH status, for a lot less than suggested. However, I thoroughly enjoy my work and look forward to going to work, not too many people in the world of work have this bonus. This is very difficult to put a value on. I would much rather be happy in what I do, knowing that I will put 100% into what I do and achieve success, than basing my success on how much money I am paid for a job I am not 100% happy with.
Yes, money is important, but it should be the sole driving factor for the position held.
Am I a rare beast or do others feel the same as me?
Adrian
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Posted By J Knight
Alexander
I think we wouldn't be human if we didn't occasionally compare our rewards with those who seem to rake it in for what seems to be next to no effort. But for me the invidious comparison is always internal. I left my last job specifically because they rate volunteer co-ordinators & trainig managers more highly than H&S people. At least here I feel reasonably regarded,
John
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
John/Adrian
I am not disputing your comments, you are correct in a sense that some practitioners are in the game for personal satisfaction. However earning a decent living wage does help too.
Although, many respondents to this thread have assumed this is just a general moan (by me). This is not the case, I am lucky enough to be in a position where I earn a decent salary package including other benefits (Laptop, Mobile, Vehicle, Fuel Card, private health care, contributory pension and decent holiday arrangements of 35 days pa)
Until such employers (public, gov, private or whatever) recognise the value of HSE within their business, there will always be a gender/pay pay divide, and continue to pay the least amount they possibly can.
Til' then it is up to all us HSE bods to raise the profile of HSE bringing value.
My employer has, this morning now approved my personal training budget - now off to book my NEBOSH Diploma 2 via RRC, sit the Dec 06 exams, and ulimately achieve CMIOSH around 2009.
A happy and satisfied Tecchhy IOSH practitioner
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Posted By Rochelle Cartmell
Hi
My first job in H&S - about three years ago was for a major supermarket retailer and I was being paid the same hourly rate as a checkout operator. That told me how much they valued health and safety in store. I obtained the NEBOSH General (paid for by myself)which enabled me to progress with another company.
I have now secured another role (having been made redundant) which are paying £25k plus other benefits such as study for Diploma et al.
I would agree that health and safety professionals need to be paid at a rate that tells people that it is an important function and role within the company.
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Posted By Alexander Falconer
hear, hear
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