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#1 Posted : 16 May 2006 08:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By BB Hi All, Just wondering what the job prospects are for a CMIOSH in Ireland. Any demand? Thanks BB
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#2 Posted : 16 May 2006 08:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By David J Have a look at the IRISH HSA web site & that will fill you in on how far back the Rep.Ireland is regarding health & safety. There is very little to be found compared to the UK HSE site. I think this may fill in some of your Queery.
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#3 Posted : 16 May 2006 11:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Christopher Kelly Sorry David, I must disagree. I was working in Ireland covering Cork until September last year. I did my part 1 diploma at UCC in Cork and the course was far better than anything I have done in the UK. Did part 2 of my diploma over here and previously did my NEBOSH Certificate in Bristol. I also did my construction certificate with the Construction Industry Federation in Cork (IOSH approved course)and my Scaffold Inspection Certificate - both of these were also very good. Ireland's legislation is broadly the same as ours, however things like LOLER / COSHH etc have not been introduced. Similar to UK the new legislation they have introduced is target / risk assessment based. The CDM Regs work better than UK equivalent in theory, however as I have found in UK and Ireland the legislation does not transfer from theory into practice - lots of people just produce lots of paper without improving safety. I had numerous dealings with Mark Rowlands a HSA Inspector in Cork (a Welshman) who was excellent. I found standards of safety not that good but then over here things are not much better ! As regards things like HSA / E websites you have to remember that Ireland is comparatively quite a poor country (recent publicity about salaries / working conditions there being better are rubbish bearing in mind the state of the health / welfare system - if you experience any ill-health pray that you are in England - you don't want to be in hospital in Ireland !). Infrastructure in many parts of the country is not good, roads that are not funded by the EU are built in a manner which terrifies me. However all that aside there is a lot of work for health and safety people and most contractors I spoke to are very interested in it. The family owned construction firm I worked for were a different matter, but then I have just finished with a family owned engineering firm in the UK whose idea of safety doesn't co-incide with what the HSE likes to think is going on. If legislation is not in place from the Dail most safety professionals will quote British / EU legislation, British / International Standards etc and these carry as much weight. There is a lot of respect for the British system. CMIOSH is recognised as the goal for all safety professionals. IOSH approves and verifies health and safety courses run in Ireland, although these are not covered by NEBOSH (having had numerous dealings with NEBOSH I think this is a good thing !). I only wish that I could have continued my 2nd year of part 2 diploma in Cork - the general risk management, toxicology / chemical agents and occupational health elements were excellent, although the construction element left a lot to be desired. People like Fleming Construction in Bandon (Cork) are excellent firms whose safety and procedures are 2nd to none. There are lots of UK people working there (not many in safety) and I never experienced any problems working there due to my nationality. In some respects I am glad to be back in the UK as it is a different culture there but the people are nice and there is money to be made, what more can you ask ? Regards
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#4 Posted : 16 May 2006 12:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By David J Delighted you had a good experience here in Ireland. The level of education here in the Republic is second to none, I agree there. I'm not of the construction industry myself, but the FAS safe pass is a joke & majoring on a money racket. Most small sites are never visited by the HSA, infact unless you work in a high risk industry or large construction firm, forget being inspected unless you have an accident big enough to warrant it. I wonder just how many employers over here even know about the reorting of an accident to the HSA if an employee is out for 3 consecutive working days which include regular days off? My point is that the HSA has very little research material, Infact they closed there cork office to the public, Hello what about encouraging Health & Safety, not close its doors. Living here full time seeking employment in the field is tough unless it construction or Pharma based. Now what does that tell you about OHS across the whole SME sector? Sure we have the new 2005 Act. But it's implimentation in the Irish workplace is poor. Even now we have a major influx of Polish workers in the construction industry. The HSA brought out a large poster of Hazard signs which to say the least are questionable as to what some of them mean. Sorry to disagree with you about the state of OHS here, but then we all have diferent experiences. But those who are comming out of Ireland with OHS education are certainly highly educated.
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#5 Posted : 16 May 2006 12:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Christopher Kelly Seriously David - if you work in the UK you will find that it isn't that different. The HSE visits very few places of work. When they do they set priorities which drag health and safety professionals away from the real priority issues onto their 'subject of the moment'. A few weeks ago I was visited at our engineering firm (who were comparatively good at health and safety but since joining them in early December I have identified some problems and we were working our way through them). The HSE inspector gave us certain requirements to sort out in the next couple of months (eg Hand Arm Vibration - something I was well aware needed to be properly risk assessed but, in the scheme of things was 6 months down the line after sorting out work at height, transport and COSHH issues). If he had bothered to visit another engineering firm down the road - Improvement / Prohibition Notices would have been coming out of his ears as they aren't even attempting to comply with basic moral duties, never mind legislation. See my posting on this site re 'Ginny Wheel' - I have a fairly low opinion of the HSE. And what was the result of his visit - his ridiculous requirements only served to wind up the MD and confirm his opinion that health & safety is a waste of time - the more he spends the more he has to do. I am afraid to say that there are too many power-crazed people in this industry who throw their weight around, change people's priorities and don't allow them to manage things for themselves. Regards, Chris
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#6 Posted : 16 May 2006 12:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By David J Isn't that where we step in to build partnerships across all dept's in the org. setting out to attain the best total annual cost approach, proving the financial & welfare benefits of our input into maximising the companies mission statement & therefore Goals. If your boss doesn't grasp the total cost approach of business, perhaps he needs to do some further education in business strategy & project mgt.! Sorry folks, I know it's completely of the topic of OHS in Ireland.
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#7 Posted : 16 May 2006 12:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Christopher Kelly Oh David by the way I did my FAS Safe Pass at Ballincollig with Michael Walsh - I learned more in that one day than I did on the whole construction section of part 1 diploma - admittedly the construction tutor was abysmal ! I wouldn't say I had a 'good' experience in Ireland - I had a massive fall-out with the firm I worked for as a Site Manager shut off scaffolding on his site following my CR8 report. Having said that I have had two similar experiences in the UK. Feedback I have had from people who have attended the CSCS course run by CITB in UK is that it is just a money-making exercise for the founder members of CITB, same as your experience. I hear different feedback for the ECITB CCNSG card - 2 day course designed for engineering firms / steel erectors etc. When I am doing site inductions sub-contractors all say that they have done it to death, having attended CSCS, Quarry Pass, Food Pass, Occasional Worker at Height etc, etc. I tend to spend more time identifying poor practice, talking to the person I found doing the poor practice then using leaflets, reports, briefings to managers etc to let people know the current failures and correct ways of doing things, this seems to get a better response. Anyway -good luck finding a job in the field - I know it's hard work but keep plugging away. My CV looks like a colander at the minute but you have to stand up for your principles ! Have you tried Fleming Construction in Bandon ? Hays Construction ?
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#8 Posted : 16 May 2006 12:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By David J I don't want to get into construction. It's a culture I didn't grow up with & i'm sure that I would lack a serious amount of respect from workers as I would be completely new to their field. I wouldn't mind working with small individual developers on a consultant basis. Must dash for now, Got my second last exam at 2pm, Good talking to ya.
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#9 Posted : 16 May 2006 12:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Christopher Kelly My experience before Ireland was more factory / transport related. I found construction no different, although things like excavation, underground services etc need a bit of thought / different approach. Needs must as they say ! Anyway - good luck with your exam Regards
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#10 Posted : 16 May 2006 13:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By Edel Try www.irishjobs.ie, www.niso.ie, the irish times and the irish independent. Judging by the vacancies advertised in the Safety & Health Practitioner, salaries are better in the UK.
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#11 Posted : 16 May 2006 16:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By SD Hi all, Interesting discussion. i would have thought the UK had better developed H & Safety legislation as Ireland is not as industrialised as the UK. Ireland really only started getting serious about Health & Safety in every workplace back in the eighties with the 1989 Health, Safety and Welfare at Work Act, however it is now a big issue what with the Celtic Tiger and the new Health Safety and Welfare at work Act 2005. I think enforcement of this Act will be interesting to watch because as with every government agencyin this country it is under resourced. Can a Health & Safety practicioner academically trained in Ireland easily convert to a job in the UK?
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#12 Posted : 16 May 2006 16:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Christopher Kelly Hi SD - actually pre 1989 the legislation was almost exactly the same as UK - Factories Acts, Boiler Explosions Acts, Construction Regs, Quarry Regs, Docks Regs etc, implemented pre and post 1923. Following 1974 H&S@W Act in UK - ROI govt commissioned Barrington to prepare a report, similar to Robens - as a result decision was taken to follow the EU route of target setting, risk assessments etc. As a result there is a bit of a divergence in the two countries legislation but they are basically following the same route (ie EU led). Regards
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#13 Posted : 17 May 2006 08:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Mackessack EU target setting? Really?
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#14 Posted : 26 May 2006 14:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By peter gotch Hi John Your email is not working at present. Regards, Peter
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#15 Posted : 26 May 2006 14:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By CHession Hi If you log onto www.niso.ie and go into Products and Services there is a section on recruitment. You will find some information there.
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#16 Posted : 26 May 2006 14:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt Folks The South ( as we in the North sometimes refer to the Republic of Ireland) also use all the same Building control documents so your fire safety experience should transfer right over. Legal practice was the same as GB until Partition in 1922. The judiciary followed the same rules for many years as it was the same system of common law. Jeff
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