Posted By Paul Oliver
What kind of phantom jobs, do you have any examples.

There are plenty on here that I would call "ingorant job vacancies". you know, the ones where you don't ever, ever hear anything back. :-)

Posted By Janette Draper
Hmmmmm yes I have seen some of those fish type ones...
however that said, I do enjoy reading the jobs; just to see if something exciting is out there... although that said, I haven't yet seen anything that appeals to me.

I think I would miss the jobs if they were taken off the forum

Posted By Neal Clark
SNT,

Thanks for your comments regarding the IOSH careers forum. IOSH HQ and the moderating team have noted this and other questionable uses of this forum. We are currently considering what course of action will be of most benefit to IOSH members.

Thanks again,

Neal Clark, Web Co-ordinator.

Posted By Anthony Kelly
Interesting thoughts from PST, though of course agencies aren't permitted to advertise on here anyway.

Posted By Christopher Kelly
Agencies should be disallowed from the site - advertising or contacting people.

If we need you we can come to you or reply to your adverts. The whole point of this site is that it is for members NOT for the benefit of agencies. Sorry but you do have a very bad reputation and I am sorry to say that it is deserved because many of your ilk are time-wasters (apologies if you are not but maybe you should refer it on to your professional body).

Posted By snt
Asha,

I hope and earnestly prayed that you get a breakthrough soon. The fact is that vacancies should be directed and response should be to the recruiting organisation only. You might be directed to the company's website or be given the contact details. There are genuine job posting, but the mode and the way they are being advertised is wrong. Imagine a job posting with yahoo.com/hotmail.com address. We are talking about risk here as well. Any job posting advertised through proper channel has limited risk attached to it. Remember your CV have got your full detail and address - (Identity fraud). Same could happen through HR department, but the risks are minimal compare to yahoo/hotmal route.

In your response, you mentioned that a post that have been filled suddenly became vacant within 10 minutes of emailing you. Does that not bring suspicion?

As to the IOSH not doing enough to hel new member, I cannot speak for them, but judging by waelth of articles and specialist groups, they are surely helping you. IOSH are not to provide employment for anybody. It is a privillege to be a member, and membership confers your status to an employer - a recognition that increases your employability.

Posted By Janette Draper
Hi Chris
Who was the CV consultant that you used? Did they do a good job and what was the cost? I think I may need that type of service...

Posted By Anthony Kelly
I have personally had excellent experience of dealing with agencies and have successfully made 2 great career moves. It's a little narrow minded to state that agencies have a bad reputation and it's deserved, in the same way that if there are some poor safety professionals out there it would be wring to state that they're all bad. Equally there are many employers out there who do not look after their staff or keep to their promises. If a construction company has a bad reputation does that mean that all construction companies have a bad reputation and it's deserved?

Posted By Alexander Falconer
steven

This is exactly the kind of role I would like, long term career prospects, reasonable package, a MD who is committed to H&S.

Two issues:

1) Construction, unfortunately no experience, however skills & experience gained are transferrable (plus am fed with Manufacturing industry, am I just unlucky that every company seems to suffer major cutbacks of some kind or another)

2) It would be extremely difficult for me to be able to afford property within commuting distance of London (currently live in Central Scotland). It is easier for folks down south to move North, than it is for us Northerners to move South.

If you ever expand Northwards, would certainly be intgerested

Posted By PST
It looks conclusive, 18 replies more for than against, one great job offer, lots of yahoo, hotmail etc addresses. May be we should conduct a survey to see what all the members actually want. I have posted three jobs over the past year on here and have had lots of replies and securely employed three great people. I have found four people wanting to make a start in health and safety, they are now fully, securely employed. No complaints, no hassle only positive.

I am not an agency, I work for myself, some people work for me, and we get a lot of work via agencies. If an agency I know or a colleague needs someone then I will help. In fact I will help anyone for that matter, it doesn’t have to be for my gain. I have worked in safety for over seventeen years (showing my age), I have networked throughout that time very successfully.

I don’t have a website, (don’t need one because I talk to people) I have a yahoo email address, like millions of other people.

Snt, your comment “Imagine a job posting with yahoo.com/hotmail.com address” could be insulting in the real world.

Posted By Bill Fisher
This Thread asked a question related to jobs and whilst it perhaps had the undertones of a campaign the Moderators decided to let it run.

However in the last posting which has now been removed direct comments (not realated to the original topic)were being made about and to a poster on the Thread. This is unacceptable, hence the reason for removal, so the Moderators must ask respondents to focus on the topic posted. If the Thread does stray it will be locked.

Posted By Paul Oliver
I also successfully found an employee on this site, although my employer at the time still decided to waste thousands on fruitless ad campaigns in newspapers.

Posted By rks
After 2 years trying to get a job through agencies and getting nowhere and getting the usual responsesfrom them -yes I will call you next week- then hearing nothing I decided to spend more time looking on the iosh forums.Then within 2 months I got 2 job offers and now I am working as a manager for a global company on 10k more than I was on before!

This really is an invaluble place for new (and exsisting) health and safety professionals to further their careers.

RKS

Posted By Christopher Kelly
The IOSH careers discussion forum is excellent but I think it is very important that agents are not allowed to use it - it defeats the object of the site. Having had a lot of experience with agents (and I repeat - there are some good ones) it is important that IOSH members are allowed some opportunity to get in front of employers without the middle man - exactly what the IOSH site allows.

I am sorry to say it but dealing with an employer through a recruitment consultant who often has never worked in industry / construction and places too much emphasis on qualifications means that often good candidates for jobs are screened out. Often the potential employer is more interested in experience and is happy for the qualifications to follow. Obviously someone with F/CMIOSH and relevant experience is going to be the best candidate but the chances of having a candidate with qualifications and good experience in a particular industry / field are often small. A good health and safety professional can usually adapt themselves to a number of fields and often it is good to have a new pair of eyes looking at things without tunnel vision but you cannot beat pre-existing experience. Health and safety qualifications are important, the new system of IOSH banding is very good but qualifications are not the be-&-end-all. If agents are allowed to flood the IOSH website (as they do the SHP website) then a fabulous facility for IOSH MEMBERS will lose it's value.

The other important point to consider is that recruitment consultants take a large cut for placing people. I have had two job offers in the past year where the salary offered has been reduced and I have been told that the salary would go up after the first year, to subsidise the recruitment consultant's fee which seems a bit unfair. The agent's fee should fund their advertising fees.
Agents should use other methods of communication with employers / candidates, allowing IOSH members to use this facility to their benefit - isn't that what we pay our membership fees for ?

I don't want to obstruct good agents but if you let one on this site the floodgates will open.

Regards

Posted By Ruth Doyle
Dear members,

I can see that this is a lively debate, but I wonder if I could add some perspective to your discussions that you might not currently be aware of.

Firstly, the guidelines for IOSH discussion forums prohibit all forms of advertising. Over the years, daily practice has allowed a small loophole to appear: that individuals could advertise their availability for work, and that small businesses (but not recruiters) should be allowed to advertise vacancies because they could not afford the advertising rates in SHP.

Gradually, this situation has mushroomed and now large organizations are advertising on these forums for free.

SHP magazine is a vital benefit for members – it has the largest job section in any health and safety publication, and because members get it for free, it saves each and every member £75 per year.

However, the magazine can only survive through its advertising revenue, and profit from that revenue is shared with IOSH and is ploughed straight back into services for members, such as this discussion forum. Commercial activity of this kind also helps us keep IOSH member subscriptions low. Last year, for every £100 each member paid to IOSH, IOSH’s commercial income subsidised each member’s fee by £67!

So when large employers advertise for free, SHP loses income, IOSH loses income, and member subscription rates are put under pressure. The long term outcome threatens the survival of SHP magazine itself, and one of the biggest benefits to all our members.

I often read in these forums that employers can’t afford to advertise in SHP – but did you know you could get an ad for as little a £264 (subject to availability) or £440 (space guaranteed)? And that all SHP ads can be immediately uploaded to the website? It’s not a large sum if you’re advertising a job for £37,000, and you have 200 employees.

Alongside all this, we believe it is still vital that individual members should continue to advertise their availability for work, and hope that many careers are advanced and enhanced in this way.

You may be interested to know that SHP and IOSH are working to build a completely new online jobs website, that will allow members to post CVs, do targeted searches, receive e-alerts, and much more. There will also be greater targeting and functionality for advertisers. We’re hoping this will be available at the end of this year.

In the meantime, thank you for your comments and thoughts. IOSH and the moderating team are currently considering what action will most benefit all IOSH members.

Yours,
Ruth Doyle, IOSH Director of Communications

Posted By Graeme Davidson
I thought I should post a reponse here to praise this forum. I am one of the success stories as I landed my first H&S job through a careers posting. Having obtained the NEBOSH certificate in June last year I attended numerous interviews and was unsuccessful. Finally, a posting on this forum led to an interview and my subsequent employment as a Junior Planning Supervisor for a great company who respects H&S. CPD and is willing to train and guide young people (I am 25) towards being safety professionals.

I agree that agency postings can be a waste of time but as has already been said, we should welcome any posts from genuine employers with genuine job offers!


Ok, I'm off to enjoy my better than average salary and my 'desk with a view' ..... have a nice weekend.

Posted By David Bannister
Richard, I cannot agree with you.

IOSH is an organisation of its members, for its members. As the foremost professional institution in our field I think it is a great and fully justified use of our subscriptions to provide a facility to further our careers, should we wish to use it.

Furthermore, if a job-seeker is able to successfully link up with an employer through this site ( and vice versa) then the reputation of IOSH is further enhanced. If that then avoids the rignmarole of sifting a massive in-box for the employer that has to be a bonus. Whilst an agency could do this, not all employers wish to be so removed from the recruitment process.

There is room for both professional agencies and professional institutions in the careers environment.