Posted By rks I was fortunate to find my first position in health and safety from the careers forum less than 6 months ago(and 2 interviews in the 4 months before it) . I started looking for a job 2 years before through agencies and shp adverts and got 1 interview in that time with a company I definitely wasn't suited to and spent night after night looking on the internet for jobs that had always just got to interview stage by the time I applied(strange that!). What a shame now that employers are being stopped from advertising on the forum because of economic reasons that don't really make sense to me. It will stop employers getting someone willing to put the time and effort to look through the forum in their spare time. I think people should remember that there are a lot of young people trying to break into health and safety and this just hamper there chances even further. Shame!

Posted By rks AB I understand what you are saying but what about the membership fees. people should remember that a forum only works if people post on it or read it and with this decision it will be interesting to see how many people stop using them RKS

Posted By John Beadle After a short spell out of work following redundancy I was fortunate to find work via the IOSH Careers Forum, what a backward step to remove this facility. Maybe the lack of income is due to companies using agencies rather than advertising individually in SHP.

Posted By PST I think IOSH should ask it's members and people who use the forum. It is a shame that money always comes first before people. Come on IOSH have a vote. PST

Posted By Ruth Doyle Dear members, I can see that many members have found their career moves through these forums – it’s good to know that IOSH has been able to support you along the way. I can also see how important you think this forum is. That’s why SHP and IOSH are working together to develop a new online jobs site, with much improved features, that will link all jobs and career related content on both sites. We hope to make this available at the end of the year. The decision to remove job advertising from this forum has not been made lightly – and the threat to advertising revenue in SHP may sound dry and dull, but it is nonetheless a vital one. Let me try and explain why. SHP has only one source of income: advertising revenue. It has no cover price, is not sold via news-stands and the vast majority of its subscribers are IOSH members, who get it for free. The estimated value of advertising income lost to these forums, because employers have been advertising for free, runs to six figures. This abuse of the forum’s acceptable use guidelines comes at a very real price to members – each lost advertisement takes money away from SHP, from IOSH, and from you, the members. By allowing it to continue, it may provide immediate benefit to some members, but ultimately threatens a key member benefit for 30,000 members. The ultimate consequence (if it continued) would be to ask members to pay for their magazine, or increase membership subscription rates – and I can’t see 30,000 members agreeing to that. The question I would ask you all is this: why should any business get free advertising, particularly at the expense of a charitable organization and its members? I can’t think of any other organization that would allow that to continue. You may think that SHP advertising is expensive – but it doesn’t have to be. Ads can cost hundreds, not thousands – it all depends on the size and position of the space you buy. That’s not much if you’re advertising a post for £20-30k. This is considerably cheaper than the rates we have to pay our local newspaper whenever we need to hire someone here at IOSH. Ads can also be posted on SHP online straight away, without having to wait for the next publication date. You asked about member involvement in this decision. Yes, members have been involved in this decision: the moderators, the SHP/IOSH board, and the Communications and International Committee – as well as IOSH and SHP staff. All of these members are nominated, or elected, or volunteer to represent you, the members, in the decisions they make about how IOSH operates. Sometimes they, and staff, have to make decisions that are unpopular in the short term, but which ultimately benefit the widest group of members. I realise this decision is disappointing for some of you. I ask you to try and understand the reasons why it has been necessary, and ask for your support when the new jobs website comes online later in the year. In the meantime, individuals can continue to post their availability for work on this site, and I personally wish all of you the very best with your future career development. Yours sincerely, Ruth Doyle IOSH Director of communications

Posted By John Beadle Once again you state that the magazine is free, nothing is free in this world and you must agree that it is part of the membership fee, otherwise why would you state the subscription rate would have to rise to cover the losses from advertising. How have you quantified the six figure sum lost, I and I am sure other members would like to know how.

Posted By Ruth Doyle Peter – yes you can continue to do this. Individuals will still be able to advertise their availability for work, and employers and recruiters can contact them directly. John - you’re right – nothing comes for free. Producing and distributing the leading health and safety magazine costs money – writers, editors, designers, sales team, print and production costs, post and packaging, and overheads. Because SHP is a subscriber only title (and the vast majority of subscribers are IOSH members who get the magazine for free), the magazine can only cover its costs through ad sales revenue. SHP is one of a range of benefits to IOSH members. All of them cost money to produce, run, support, administer, distribute, promote, and so on. Here is the current list: • free technical information service... find the facts and figures that you need quickly, +44 (0)116 257 3199 • free health and safety lawline - help with interpreting legislation and case law, +44 (0)161 242 2771 • free best practice guides... +44 (0)116 257 3116 • free Safety and Health Practitioner the profession's leading monthly magazine • discounted subscription to our biannual academic journal, Policy and Practice in Health and Safety, +44 (0)116 257 3189 • cutting-edge online Continuing Professional Development programme... free to members, +44 (0)116 257 3239 • more than 80 professional development courses... at discounted rates, +44 (0)116 257 3197 • over 300 free or low cost events... every year, +44 (0)116 257 3195 • member consultation... the chance to have your say on proposed new regulations and legislation • online discussion forums... for professional issues, careers and study support • networking active local branches... plus sector-specific groups... • funding to support research and development... • free career counselling and performance coaching service, +44 (0)116 257 3198 The money that supports these member benefits comes from two sources: members’ subscriptions, and income from commercial activity. If you look at last year’s annual report, you will see that the split was roughly 35/65, with any surplus being reinvested into new member services (such as the R&D or benevolent funds) or services for the general public (wiseup2work is a good example). In fact, for every £100 members paid in subscriptions, IOSH commercial income (including the profitshare we get from SHP) subsidised each member’s fee by £67. If commercial income falls, it directly threatens the level of subsidy IOSH is able to give towards each member’s subscription rate – and for that reason, could result in a rise in member subscription rates. You asked how we came to the figure for lost ad sales revenue. We were able to trace back over the previous 12 months and count the number of ads placed by employers on the forum, assess the size of each organisation, and judge what the likely ad spend would have been had they gone to SHP. We were also able to see that the number of advertisements posted, and loss of income, was increasing month by month, and were able to forecast likely loss of revenue to the end of this calendar year. I hope this answers your queries. Regards, Ruth Doyle IOSH Director of communications

Posted By Steve99Jones So Ruth Just how much profit is made annually by CMP from the publication of SHP? Has this been considered by the board when making its decision? After all as you have stated SHP is essentially only read by IOSH members, as the official publication of IOSH, IOSH members are therefore creating substantial wealth and profits for the shareholders of CMP. Your views please......

Posted By Paul http://www.jobcentreonline.com/ Check it out... there's more jobs than you might think.

Posted By Lawrence Waterman In my present post I'm about to advertise, in SHP of course, for qualified H&S staff. If I were looking for a job as an individual member I could post my availability on this forum, but my employer has to pay to advertise to fill posts. Seems perfectly reasonable to me that employers pay, members get a free service. Of course, if this policy were changed, I'd be bonkers to pay for the jobs to be advertised in SHP and the revenue would go down the swanee. It's not what any national newspaper or other professional magazine does, I don't really understand the negative postings about this.

Posted By apc Just wondering, Isn't IOSH a registered charity? If so, wouldn't it be a charitable act to allow colleagues persue their employment goals in order to develope proffesional goals too?

Posted By Dave Wilson would be interesting to see how many of the 'negative' postings on here are actually members of IOSH? Owt for nowt! I'll have two! I agree that we should not be allowing recruiters to advertise freely on here why should they get a free ride on the back of my subs! I do sympathise with the NON IOSH members who are using the careers forum to get work and for what ever reason do not subscribe to IOSH, however as pointed out in the memebers section you can advertise your availability and if suitable them I am sure a Recritment Agency etc will get in contact.

Posted By Ironbath Would a moderator please state which of the acceptable use guidelines my previous posting breached?

Posted By Glyn Atkinson Why not have a advertisers' fee paying members section so that advertisers can reach our particular membership readershipp in a faster and more timely manner than once per month, and move up with the technlogical times? Just a thought for still getting in revenue for IOSH, but giving the members a better and more timely service. The moderators could also fish out the more unscrupulous agencies who advertise for C/V collections as well, perhaps?