Posted By 9-Ship Recruitment people are just sales sharks - a necessary evil but keep them at arm's length. For an individual applying for a job through an agency/recruiter just remember you are at least third on the agencies list of priorities: 1. The agency need to place SOMEONE (not necessarily You) because they need a fee for their income/recruiters commission 2. They need to satisfy the client company, that they can find suitable people, so that the client company might use them again. 3.After these 2 points, they just might consider your needs, but even then will only approach who they think is the candidate most likely to successful - so even if you live 5mins doen the road from the client, but don't have the perceived specific skills for the job, that is irrelevant. Probably most recruiters are just sales orientated people, who don't have a clue what a safety manager really does, but they have been told to look for certain key qualifications and words on a CV, then blag away to their client about how good they are (the recruiter that is, not the candidate) If there is one group of people who should have been put down at birth, its recruitment consultants.

Posted By Richard Stewart Peter & 9-Ship I wholeheartedly take on board your comments and am disappointed that both of you have such a low opinion of Recruitment Agencies. Whilst we endeavour to give Candidates the best possible service time constraints make this tricky and yes, telling someone that I do not have a job for them coming further down the lists of priorities then dealing with offers, arranging interviews, etc. It is true that our over whelming responsibility is to fulfil the wishes of the Client as at the end of the day, that is who pays are bills however to keep the client satisfied we must also maintain a professional approach in our dealings with Candidates. Firstly if we ‘blag’ there is a very good chance that the Candidate will drop out of the role and will have to reimburse the fee – making our management very unhappy, and more importantly really upsetting the client and potentially ruining an individuals career. Secondly, we want to turn our candidates into clients – this is the best and easiest way for us to develop our revenue stream. The Conduct of Employment Agencies by is now highly regulated by law so to a large extent the sharp practices are now a thing of the past Ask your agency if they are REC Audited, ask the Consultant if they are MREC, ask them what their background is? On a final note, yes we are sales people, we are money motivated but I know most of the Recruiters in this sector and I do not know one who could be classified as a wide boy. I am determined to do well for my own self-esteem and the very fact that I want to be able to save enough money so that my Wife does not have to work for 5 years after our first child is born. Would you prefer a recruiter to be earning £18k pa with no motivation to find you / fill a job. Richard Stewart Anders Elite

Posted By Richard Stewart Peter I understand your comments and I appreciate that sometimes we do not meet expectations. Some people do a good job, others do not, surely that is true of any industry? The market gradually sifts those out who are not very good - they will struggle to strengthen their relationships and eventually lack of revenue = lack of job. On the subject of quality - one of the key things that I am assessed on is the quality of my work ie My send to interview ratio and my interview to placement ratio. Reducing these ratios is the key to keeping everyone happy. I would really any appreciate comments either direct to me or on this forum, the better I do my job the happier everyone is. Regards, Richard ps The comment about saving for a family, was added to attempt to show that the image of Rec Cons spending all their money on flash cars, champagne and Class A drugs is very outdated, the industry has moved on a lot since then.

Posted By mark burton Some interesting thoughts to which I'd like to reply. Having been a recruitment professional in the HSE sector for over 7 years I have seen how the market has grown. When I began working in the sector there were perhaps only 2-3 "competitors" there are now many, many more, some of which advertise in the trade press. Any company that wants to recruit health and safety professionals can do so, in the same way that anyone can call himself a health and safety professional. As a potential client I would want to understand what knowledge an individual has of their industry and would make my decision about who to work with based on my belief that they can offer a service that will meet my requirements. As Richard mentions anyone looking for a role should speak to recruitment companies and make sure that they are comfortable working with them. Our consultants have all had at least basic training in health and safety and are trained to nationally recognised recruitment standards. Our industry is regulated and anyone wishing to voice a specific complaint should speak with the REC. The sooner unprofessional, unethical recruiters are driven out of business the better for all of us who “do things properly”. I believe that the SHP has been the official magazine of IOSH for many years, so the relationship has always been there. IOSH are just trying to protect their interests by maximising their advertising revenue through the SHP. This is understandable and it was always an anomaly that commercial companies could advertise roles, but agencies couldn’t. Recruitment agencies are commercial businesses and our fees are paid by our clients. Our fees are only paid when both the client and candidate are happy. If either party is unhappy then not only will we not earn our fee but we’re left with a disgruntled client and candidate and our future relationships with both are compromised. If you’re in this profession long enough then your clients will become candidates and vice versa. Any agency that is purely profit driven, rather than concentrating on providing a quality service, will eventually come unstuck. You have to expect that from time to time things will go wrong and unfortunately (as in any profession where you’re dealing with people) you cannot please everyone all the time. There will always be candidates who apply for jobs that aren’t successful, but it’s the way that you handle the relationships that is most important. To counter a couple of points specifically from Peter and 9-Ships postings: A recruitment company’s responsibility is to provide a high quality service to clients and candidates that they work with. They are only paid for doing a good job. There is only one recruitment consultant as far as I’m aware that has formal links with IOSH and he is identified as “careers adviser to IOSH”. All other companies in the industry provide services to people who may be members of IOSH, but could also be members of the IIRSM or any other body. We do not serve IOSH specifically any more than any other company with any link to the HS&E industry who is selling PPE or making safety signs. We have good relationships with IOSH that we work hard to maintain and value the work that IOSH does to raise the role of the profession. We also work very hard to educate people that we work with who do not understand the qualifications and memberships that are available and provide a valuable service in this way. 9 – Ship is absolutely right. We need to place someone, but the important thing is that it has to be the right person for both client and candidate. I am sure that all recruiters have been job hunters at some time and understand the frustrations of people who are searching. We are paid to find the most suitable candidate by our clients and of course we are going to put forward candidates that we think are going to be acceptable. Why would we spend time putting candidates forward for unsuitable jobs or telling candidates about jobs for which they are neither suitable qualified or experienced. We do understand the industry, we understand the qualifications, memberships and that skills are transferable. However no recruitment professional could make a decision to submit someone for a job who didn’t have the appropriate skills purely because they live “5 minutes down the road” as he’s suggested. I can imagine the conversation….. “9- ship here’s our newest recruit, joining the team on Monday” “Great. Is he CMIOSH like we wanted?” “No” “As you know, I’m working flat out and really need some support. I need someone who can hit the ground running. Does he know his way around a construction site?” “No” “So he’s not sufficiently qualified or experienced and doesn’t meet the spec that we agreed together and used to brief the recruitment consultancy during our meeting with them?” “No” “So why have we employed him?” “Well, he lives 5 minutes up the road. Rather getting the best person we decided we should get someone who could walk to work. It might not be best for us, but it was easy for him to get here……….” I cannot believe that anyone any safety professional, member of IOSH or otherwise would be pleased if their employer brought in a new team member who was neither properly qualified nor experienced, but could travel easily to work. I have looked for jobs through agencies in the past. Some agencies were good, others were awful. I went back to the good ones and ignored the bad ones. I didn’t decide that all agencies were bad and when one agency behaved unethically I complained to them directly. Any reputable agency will have it’s own internal complaints procedure and if this does not resolve your problem then you should make a formal complaint about them to the REC or just forget about them and work with another agency that will do things properly. Agencies are not paid by candidates and if you’re not happy with what an agency does then find a company that does behave in the way you’d expect as you surely would do with any other company providing you with a service. We have been recruiting safety professionals for 10 years. Our consultants are all qualified in recruitment and are members of the REC. We have all studied health and safety (I’m currently studying the NEBOSH Certificate, other consultants are qualified to Post Graduate level). Some of us are members of IOSH and we are all focused on providing a high quality service to clients and candidates. Not all recruitments are “sales sharks”. Some of us take a real pride in what we do. We’re ethical, professional, qualified, experienced and driven to succeed. Of course there is a sales element to the role, but this only gives us the incentive to succeed. You don’t earn commission for failing to fill jobs or for putting people in jobs who leave quickly. Safety professionals and recruitment professionals both work in a “results business” and neither of us benefit if we get the wrong result. As Richard suggested, some of us take real pride in what we do and are focused on getting the right result, rather than a result at any cost. There will always be unprofessional companies in every industry and the more that people complain formally to our governing body about the “bad apples” the quicker the perception of the industry will improve. This will benefit the companies who do things the right way. The Recruitment and Employment Confederation is working hard to improve the industry. Ask the consultancy that you’re dealing with whether they are corporate members of the REC. Ask their consultants if they are members of the REC. If not, their knowledge, skills and experience haven’t been recognised by their governing body and so I would suggest that you find a company that is a member with professionally trained consultants. There are many companies out there who offer recruitment services in this industry. We have seen lots of companies come and go in the 10 years that we’ve been here. Many more will come and go in the coming years. I would suggest that anyone in this months SHP who is still advertising there in 10 years time must be doing something right. Mark Burton MREC Dip RP Recruitment Manager - Search and Selection & International Principal People

Posted By 9-Ship I think the thing that most annoys people is the off hand way recruitment companies treat candidates, regardless of the so called professional credentials of a recruitment company - as other have said: Failure to return phone calls No feedback about applications When you have clearly stated a region of the country that you want to work and still get calls about jobs based in elsewhere Calls about jobs paying far less than the salary range you have indicated Jobs that you match the description for, but fail to get put forward for - because the consultant won't at least run the details past their client, let the client decide - they are ultimately employing the candidate. As I say, you are trying for a placement - helping the candidate to advance their career is of little interest to you. Not doubt other have other gripes about recruitment companies Luckily I have sufficient qualifications and experience (10ys H&S) to move jobs fairly easily. Just look at the postings on this forum, for people wanting their first break into h&s - but constantly knocked back, because presumably they have not been put forward because of the narrow views of recruitment people and the urge to make the placement/get the commission etc because qualified/experienced people are easier to place. Nobody is asking for charity, but the constant urge of industry to only accept experienced people is a negative impact on the economy as a whole - speculate to accumlate and all that. When I change jobs, one thing I look for is career development potential, which includes training etc

Posted By Richard Stewart Peter As requested 1.Why do recruitment agencies not phone back when they say they will or not at all after a interview?? - In any job you have to prioritise, unfortunately sometimes things slip through the net. I promise you any half decent Consultant will keep in touch if they feel they can place you. Do bear in mind that a lot of Recruitment Consultants are trained to wait for you to call with your feedback following an interview as it is a good way of determining how keen you are. 2.Why do people still attend interviews when there is clearly a difference of terms and conditions between recruiter and potential employer?. - Sorry do not understand the question 3.The recruiters complaints procedure for candidates will not be used as if they use it the fear is that there will never be a call again!. - Peter if you suspect an Agency of illegal practice contact the DTI, after Morecambe agencies are very much on their radar. If you are not happy with the Recruiter, ask for his/her Branch Manager. If you have a poor relationship with one agency and you think it is down to them, there are at least another 12 advertising in SHP. 4.Should recruiters put an article together in the SHP and explain why things are as they are??. A number of my (industry) colleagues contribute to SHP, speak to SHP if they are interested in putting something together that is down to them. Regards, Richard Stewart MREC - Anders Elite

Posted By peter j lane Is there a opportunity for for a recruitment agency to be set up by lets say IOSH or IIRSM that gives a good service and phones you back etc, but is also a registered charity and donates all the profits to families of people that have been injured/killed at work or assisting in campaigns that make the world a safer place?? Run by Safety people for Safety people and charges a reasonable rate?