Posted By Diane Does anyone out there have a fire risk assessment form please ? It would be really helpful to have a few different ones for comparison if anyone can H E L P !! Thanks very much.

Posted By Jonathan Sandler CMIOSH A Fire Risk assessment can only be carried out by a Competent Person. You might whis to concider this fact before going any further. Regards

Posted By Centurion CMIOSH MaPS You can obtain a fairly inexspensive format from BSI which is called PAS 79 Fire Risk Assessment.

Posted By Diane Thanks for your information everyone. I am a Compitent Person, I have 20 yrs experience and a couple of the Nebosh level 3's - so all this will help me put together a comprehensive fire risk assessment. Thanks

Posted By Steven I know the issue of competency is an ongoing issue but I would like to point to the following which comes from the Factories and Warehouse guidance: “It has been written to provide guidance for a responsible person, to help them to carry out a fire risk assessment in less complex factories and warehouses. If you read the guide and decide that you are unable to apply the guidance, then you should seek expert advice of a competent person.” Thereforeit will depend on whether you feel you are competent in applying the guidance and what the premises is. Guidance’s can be found at http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1162115 Steve

Posted By GT Diane, I dont think you should treat the good advise given by your colleagues as argumentative. On the contrary I think you should thank them for the good advise. I have written before on this forum regarding " a little knowledge being dangerous" and that fire engineering is a specialist field and therefore you should tread carefully when conducting a fire risk assessment and firstly establish whether it is a simple assessement for the corner sweety shop or a more complicated premises holding hazardous /highly flammable materials and 200 employees, with inadequate features. If you let me know what the scenario is I will try and help. GT

Posted By Peter Longworth Diane I hope you are suitably chastened now and your smacked wrists are suitably sore. Hands up however all those who have 20 years experience of conducting fire risk assessments. To all those who reply yes may I commend you all on your amazing foresight in anticipating a regulatory requirement that came into force in 1997. Maybe you could post next week's lottery numbers so we can all retire and forget about fire risk assessments for ever.

Posted By Paul Oliver I can’t understand why everyone moans at J. Clarkson taking a pop at the profession. If he happens to look at some of the responses within these forums, you can understand why we are all seen as bureaucratic pen pushers with nothing better to do. If I can assist in anyway, another colleague who requests H&S information, then I will. And yes I am self-employed and do not see this as a threat to my livelihood. If I don’t want to help then I won’t. What I won’t do is start questioning someone’s competence or deriding what they intend to do with the information. A request for information should not have to carry with it some form of justification, and yes I have assisted Dianne in her request for information, just like I will for many others. ?

Posted By Mark Morgan www.safeandhealthyworkin...tion/downloads/index.cfm The Safety and Healthy Working organisation has a few downloadable risk assessments (inc Fire) that could assist you. regards Mark

Posted By Diane Brilliant ! Thanks for the wealth of information and support everyone. Kind Regards Diane

Posted By RJT Surely a risk assessment is not the piece of paper (or electronic version) called 'Fire Risk Assessment' or similar. It is the thought process and reasoning that went into deciding whether enough precautions had been taken to minimise the risk of a fire occuring; and whether, in the event of a fire, people could safely escape from the building. The piece of paper is simply that - a piece of paper. It is a record, or summary of the assessment. When someone looks at a risk assessment record and states that it is not suitable and sufficient, what they generally mean is that not enough information is included in the record - it does not necessarily mean that the thought process, reasoning, and conclusions from the assessment were flawed. Of course there is a level of competence required - the need to understand travel distances, protected corridors, etc, etc, but lets not get hung up on the assumption that a record of the assessment is the assessment itself because it isn't.

Posted By 9-Ship Here we go again about competence. I bet thousands of fire risk assessments (and indeed any other type of RA) get completed by company managers/supervisors day after day. Sure fire risk assessment can be quite technically demanding in large/complicated buildings, but for probably thousands of small to medium size companies who occupy small premises with simple layouts, fire risk assessment is pretty straight forward. I would suggest just about anyone with an adequate appreciation of fire - probably someone with a technical/science/engineering background will be able to self learn (by reading the new guidance that has been published), will be able to complete a suitable and sufficient fire assessment. That ladies and gents is the harsh commercial reality of running a small/medium size business - why pay an expensive consultant with 25 letters after is name, when with a little thought and application it could be done in house. Lets face it, in my experience many companies only use consultants because they can't be bothered to do the assessments themselves. Many SME have not heard of IOSH/Instititute of Fire Engineers (sorry if title wrong!)and couldn't give 2 hoots about IOSH, membership levels, perceived value of H&S and H&S consultants - they just want to stay the right side of the law and get on with their business. With anything like an assessment, that covers the main fire safety points and follows the general guidance, I would think the Fire Service would have difficulty getting a successful prosecution. I would have thought they would have to show no assessment at all had been carried out or the assessment was way below the standard expected. In the event of a fire, again I think there would have to be serious injury/death before a prosecution - if everyone gets out ok - the event is then just an insurance claim for the damage caused. Don't think that will be the top of the priority list of the local fire service.

Posted By 9-Ship I don't disagree with your observations and comments, however I think my views remain true for a large number of small/medium size SMEs etc and how they look at h&s and its application.

Posted By snt "I am a Compitent Person, I have 20 yrs experience and a couple of the Nebosh level 3's - so all this will help me put together a comprehensive fire risk assessment. Thanks" This is not a matter of being competent or experienced, but the point here is that the thread poster asked for help regarding Fire risk assessment form. There are vast examples on the internet, a quick serach on Google give such examples as can be found on http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/fire_risk.doc http://www.london-fire.g...work/risk_assessment.asp The above is my submission to the initial help. On being a competent person with 20 years exeperience in H&S, this is another thing that we should guide against. The fact that one have a years of experience in H&S does not imply that we are expert in Fire Risk Assessment. I agreed with the contributors that suggested that help is needed in assessing Fire Risk. We may have the thought process to conduct the initial risk assessment, are we in a better position to quantify those risks in term of probability, production processes, chemical and material composition? Obviously, some of these call for engineering advice and technical involvement. A barbeque party in London inner city would be different from a barbeque party in Southend by the beach side. Readers would note that the effect of the wind and the people to be affected (likely to be more)should be taken care of in Southend. So Wind measurement technics is required. With the above in mind, most H&S position in more technical areas call for professionals with engineering background. In another vein, a Fire risk assessment Form for clothing store might be different from a Clothing Manufacturer. Furthermore, the ability to interprete statistical information would be an asset in assessing Fire Risk. A word of advice, no matter years of experience we might have in H&S every domain we might find ourselves, we still need expert advice. Hence, "competent" in the sense does not equate with years of experience or H&S certificates/diploma but scientific/technical/engineering capability to do so. I can cook my own meal, but that does not make me a competent cook/chef, as I dont even have the Basic Food Hygeine certificate.

Posted By Diane Nice one Shaun ! Re: 'I thought about it' ... I don't know about you, but I wish I'd never even heard of it now !! haha

Posted By Diane Yes, there should be no shortage of applicants Peter - there's plenty of us sat 'playing' on the forum. Gizajob !! haha (All in good taste though eh ?)

Posted By MetalMan Robert S Woods that response was priceless! I've just spat my tea accross my desk! Ever considered writing comedy scripts?

Posted By Diane Here we go ...

Posted By Martin R. Bessant As this thread appear to have totally lost its way it has been locked and can no longer accept postings. Please remember that this is a professional forum and responses should be kept to the subject under discussion. Martin Bessant - Lead Moderator.