Posted By Dave Wilson
I am so so so happy that the jobs pages are going, it will save me loads of angst!

Until we get this H&S profession sorted out we will always be a joke profession.

Not to decry but

working from home / unsupervised / Nebosh Cert / H&S Consultancy / doing H&S Audits for clients blady blady blah

any comments anyone?

Posted By Andrew Cartridge
Careful Dave,


I sense a "Bundy" moment approaching & we all know where that ends.

I can only speak from my experience, which includes Africa & the Caribbean & then UK, what we achieve here with health & safety is far from a joke.


Four touchdowns

Andy

Posted By Max Bancroft
Dave - could you be more specific. Is it because you see the H&S jobs described at the lower end of the scale (shall we say) where it is obvious the person advertising for someone hasn't a clue as to what it takes to be a H&S practitioner and what H&S is really about?
Certainly if we get a tightening up on what is allowed to be put in the SHP (eg stop people insisting on NEBOSH as if getting a MSc in OSH isn't as good) it might stop us being SEEN as not a real profession.

Posted By Max Bancroft
Garyh - IOSH is not so different from the Royal Society of Chemistry. It has Affiliates for those who are interested in Chemistry or studying it, Members (who can use the designation MRSC) for those who have graduated or equivalent in Chemistry (probably equivalent to Tech IOSH) and Chartered Chemists for those who fulfil further criteria - equivalent to CMIOSH. If I were an Affiliate member of the RSC I certainly wouldn't describe myself as a member of the chemistry profession but as an MRSC I certainly would with the understanding that I am not so qualified/competent as someone who can add CChem.

There are, of course, Fellows (FRSC). The equivalences are not exact but it gives us an idea of how another profession sees itself.

We had a talk recently at our AGM from a Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh. They started off in 1505 as the Barber Surgeons of Edinburgh. They became pure surgeons splitting off from the barbers a century later. I suspect they weren't highly thought of as a profession when they started off but look at surgeons now. Give us another century!

Posted By Gary IMD(UK)
Dave,

Your point being?

Take care!

Posted By Jim Walker
Hi Dave,

I think it will be a shame actually, cos I was going to advertise here.

I passed my NEBOSH Cert last Wednesday and now that I’m a professional safety person, I was planning to set up a consultancy specialising in training people for the touch screen CSCS test so that they can work on building sites knowing all about construction site safety. They will , have the right card to prove it.

Also I was planning to set up a subsidiary (my brother has a transit and his own ladder) removing that white fibre stuff from buildings - have seen someone else doing this and think I can do it much quicker, with far less flaffing around. Evidently there is lots of money to make in this, particularly if you take the white fibre stuff to the council tip in the evening.

Posted By Martin R. Bessant
I am not proposing to stop your fun (yet) but I must remind you all about the IOSH Acceptable Use Guidelines and the need to comply with them.

Martin Bessant - Lead Moderator.

Posted By Gary IMD(UK)
Dave, I am in agreement with you! (There's a first!)

The important point being 'What level'. I tend to train in H & S rather than advise or act as a consultant... it's what I do! I know my own capabilities and levels! I even turn work away (In fact, pass it on to someone who knows more than me on the given subject) if I am not comfortable delivering that particular area of H & S.

In terms of 30K being offered, as we all know, the market decides how much it will pay and as you have mentioned football... how many times do we say... 50k a week... for playing football... it's scandalous!! And yet, that is only led by the 'market' and were I a little more agile, down the right wing, I'd happily take the money!

In terms of my own work, my daily rate fluctuates massively... dependent on market forces! Yes, I have a minimum, but each industry tends to have a ballpark figure and I for one am always happy to negotiate.

Interesting point though, when it comes to qualifications... How many Managers do you know who have absolutely no Management qualifications? They got the job perhaps because a) They had been there a long time, b) They were good at there job... Then fall flat on their face when they are in a management position? Yet by the same token, I know many Managers who do a stirling job!

Take care!

Posted By Max Bancroft
And presumably, John, doing an NVQ under your supervision that will get him Grad IOSH in a few months time? And Tech IOSH thereafter.

Posted By Glyn Atkinson
And again from a different tack - how many industrial safety reps get interested through looking after their fellow workers, get some TUC or equivalent training, and then get the bug to go further?

Is this where the starter enquiries come from on this now to be defunct job page - we all had to come from somewhere no matter what our current opinions are !!

It's the safety rep equivalent of their lowest level NVQ - learn as you go.

Then, at the top, you get the manager who is extremely good at his job, and talks well in safety terms - then can't use a pc and print out any text documents, answer mails, issue works instructions - but he knows the job inside out. Sound familiar ??

How do you define competence? There are SO many ways to show how much knowledge you have in any subject !

Let's face it, we've got 30,000,000 fully abled England managers glued to the tv at the moment, but not one shred of paper qualification to their names - go on, you know, you're out there !

I think that only after an interview, a gut feeling appointment from several good candidates, and a probationary learning curve period of time will let you know if you have picked the right person for the right level of competence in Health and Safety.

How do these people get one way of their first job opportunity ? - This current job page, including any personal mail advice from thread readers to help them define what others may want to read into their requests for work.

I just feel that it's a great shame to lose it, but can understand the IOSH monetary stance.

Posted By Dave Wilson
Maybe in 6 months we can ask the question - Who has found work as a result of this forum and if any of then were as a result of being placed by an agency?

Posted By Bunny
I got a temp contract from advertising my services on this page. I have also got a permanent job through an agency that contacted me through my posting on this page.

I don't have a feeling one way or the other about jobs being advertised here but I think I have had more response fom advertsing my services on this page than responding tomadverts on this page (if that makes sense!)

But it's swings and roundabouts really. We all have a variety of good and bad experience.

Posted By Dave Wilson
So then posting that you are available for work on here is successful as you have demonstated, so then why should people who are looking to offer work get a free ride? As this avenue will still be open to you, agencies and others can see this and if you are any good then it can work

Posted By Gary IMD(UK)
Because the short term contracts will no longer be advertised!

Have you got something against people earning money Dave?! No offence, but I don't have the luxury of a salary paid month in month out.. But then that's my choice... And I wouldn't change a thing!

Take care!

Posted By Max Bancroft
Is everybody making their views known to an IOSH Council member near them? Next meeting is in Sept.

IOSH (by which I mean Council which is the governing body and which is elected by all the Coporate members and soon will be elected by all members Corporate and non-corporate) has to balance a variety of things.

In this case possible loss of revenue to SHP which is a service to members and which would then cost more i.e. increase in subs to all the membership against the possibility of jobs/work for some members who are on the lookout via this forum and who don't have an alternative.

As an ordinary member I feel for my colleagues who are on the lookout and would be willing to pay a wee bit more in subs but then I know an awful lot who grumble every time there is an increase in subs. Basically all they want is the letters after their name at minimum cost - Branch meetings, (Specialist) Groups, Chat forums, contributing to Govt policy via ConDocs, being the thought leader in H&S etc just pass them by.

Posted By AHS
I feel its a shame try this new site http://hsejobs.proboards92.com Hopefully IOSH will realise that the SHP has no answers for the self employed consultant who gets a couple of days here and there.

Posted By Gary IMD(UK)
I can advertise anything in my local paper under 'Free Ads'... for nothing! (Maybe that's why they call them free ads)?? For the benefit of the community!

NON PROFIT MAKING? Why is it that the main reason is that revenue is being lost via SHP? The majority of smaller consultants, etc who 'advertise' on here currently would never afford some rates in a national magazine... therefore wouldn't do it!

I thought IOSH was a members institute, for the benefit of members?

For some reason, which escapes me, you don't like other people earning Dave, do you?! Have a great weekend!

Take care!

Posted By Dave Wilson
OK fair point but thats what budgets are for, There is nothing to stop people advertising that they are available for work its about peopel having free advertising when they really should be paying for it.