Posted By V Sams
As a Tech IOSH, I did two weeks NEBOSH Cert, then 33 weeks (on day release) NEBOSH Dip 1.

Now, like many Tech IOSH memebers, who have not registered for CPD, I face the loss of my Tech IOSH designation w.e.f 31/03/07.

Unlike Dip 2, which entitles successful examination candidates to use Dip2.OSH as a designation; Dip 1 does not.

From what I have seen of CPD, it does little, if anything, to ensure knowledge of changing legislation is kept current; and appears to be purely a licence to print money, as most CPD members have to spend vast sums of money to attend lectures to gain CPD points, or at least some of their CPD points.

Having spent £4,000 on NEBOSH Dip 1, I feel somewhat cheated if I am to lose my Tech IOSH designation, and cannot use Dip1.OSH instead. Furthermore, from the previous comments on this forum, it appears I am far from being in the minority, when it comes to holding this view.

What is NEBOSH or IOSH prepared to do ?

Do they listen to the wishes of their membership ?

I work in a large company with 30,000 employees. Unless this issue is resolved, and resolved prior to membership renewals in March, I cannot see that I will be recommending others to join IOSH.

I await a response. If anyone is listening.

Yours truly frustrated.

Posted By Dave Wilson
You need to separate NEBOSH from IOSH as they are different.

In any professional Chartered Institute CPD is a mandatory requirement of membership and I do sympathise that you are caught up in the changes etc That said CPD and its introduction for all grades has been on the cards for over 2 years.

I have been doing CPD in IOSH since its intoduction quite a few years ago and it is not that costly or time consuming to achieve.

What is time consuming is trying to get the CPD on line thingy to work!

Policy development, Course design and delivery, attending branch, other Professional development which you may do as part of your career progression and makes you a better safety person can also be used so its not always about attending training, I do agree however if that the route you choose then it will be expensive.

Posted By V Sams
Vic,

I’ve just responded to your thread.

There are loads of aspects to your question and I have chosen to respond to just one, so mine is by no means a complete answer.

The relevant department of IOSH has been contacted by the moderators, so someone will be along shortly to talk you through the issues either over the thread or by direct e-mail.

I hope I didn’t come across as brash and unsympathetic as this was not my intention. In the meantime keep an eye on the thread and see how it develops.

Regards

Jonathan Breeze CMIOSH

Jonathan,

Thanks for the response, and your email.

I have already received an official “no can help” reply from both IOSH and NEBOSH. Which does not bode well.

I fail to see why we cannot be allowed to distinguish CMIOSH and MIOSH, and CTech IOSH and Tech IOSH is something similar, to give members the choice, rather than it being forced upon them. No-one likes having things forced upon them, at the end of the day, and to withdraw the professional designation completely for those rebels that do not comply, merely devalues the whole point of the academic achievement. How would BSc / MSc / Phd holders feel if it was removed, after they had successfully completed the course and the exams ? It is wrong, plain and simple.

The reason for posting it on the discussion forum, was the hope that others might support. Without such support, no change will ever come.


Vic

Posted By Alan Hewett
Hello Vic,

Could I ask why it appears that you don't want to do CPD.

Regards

Alan

Posted By V Sams
Dear All,

Many thanks to each of you that have entered this debate.

My answer to Alan, is covered above.

My question to Mandip would be :-

I fail to see why we cannot be allowed to distinguish CMIOSH and MIOSH, and CTech IOSH and Tech IOSH is something similar, to give members the choice, rather than it being forced upon them. No-one likes having things forced upon them, at the end of the day, and to withdraw the professional designation completely for those rebels that do not comply, merely devalues the whole point of the academic achievement. How would BSc / MSc / Phd holders feel if it was removed, after they had successfully completed the course and the exams ? It is wrong, plain and simple.

So what is the reason why this cannot happen ?

Posted By Mandip Pabial-Parmar
With reference to your above enquiry IOSH cannot allow members to choose between CMIOSH and MIOSH as the entire membership structure has changed and is Incorporated by Royal Charter since 2003, which is endorsed by the privy council. All corporate members at that time voted on the new structure and the new framework was overwhelmingly endorsed. Royal Chartership and the new structure have just been put in place and has taken a significant number of years to achieve, hopefully you too will benefit from the Royal Charter by becoming a Chartered member.

Posted By V Sams
At last, someone else with a brain ! Well done Salus, the point you raise is a good one, and well made.

Mandip - perhaps that is the point. Only Corporate Members were asked whether they wished to adopt the scheme, but the scheme was then mandated on all memebership levels. Why weren't all members consulted ?

Posted By Alan Hewett
Sometimes you need to be able to demonstrate competence to others who are not aware of your capabilities.

CPD assists you in achieving this.

I undertook CPD voluntarily as a TechSP.

Have a look at the CPD information on this site for its benefits and reasons.

Driving ~ If people did have to retake their driving test every two years then maybe the number of road traffic accidents would be reduced. But maybe having to retake after causing a road traffic accident would be more appropriate.

Regards

Alan

Posted By V Sams
Alan - when IOSH changed the mebership rules from TechSP to TechIOSH, the CPD element ceased to be voluntary.

Posted By Alan Hoskins
That's what I meant Alan - TechSP - but forgot the designation...

When I (voluntarily) undertook CPD then, I was not aware of the implications in terms of corporate membership that were coming along. I just did it to improve my knowledge.

Alan (the other one)

Posted By Alan Hoskins
OK Vic, but we've all had it 'forced upon us' now, with or without a vote.

Are you suggesting that it is unecessary for Tech IOSH?

Alan (the other one)

Posted By Alan Hewett
V,

You are right, it is not nice to have things forced upon you, but I don't understand why someone would not want to undertake CPD.

I can only see the benefits of taking part in the CPD scheme(voluntary or mandatory), and from my personal experience I have found it to be really beneficial to my development and career.

Maybe I have missed the point (apologies in advance) and in that case I hope that you receive a satisfactory response to your enquiry from an authoritative source.

Kind regards and all the best for 2007,

Alan (not the other one)

Posted By Alan Hewett
Salus,

Do employers know or care?

Unfortunately not all, although some jobs that I have applied for have asked for evidence of continuing professional development as a criteria. As I take part in the CPD scheme it has been relatively straight forward for me to demonstrate (although CPD is not the be all or end all).

CPD also assists in maintaining current competency levels (and provides a way of being able to demonstrate that)which can be achieved on a daily basis doing a job in the real world.

As you have earned, paid for, worked, studied, and taken the time to achieve something wouldn't you want to maintain that standard of achievement?

Again if I have missed the point (apologies in advance) I hope that you receive a satisfactory response to your enquiry from an authoritative source.

And to both you and V, thanks for opening up an interesting debate.

Kind regards and all the best for 2007,

Alan (not the other one)

Posted By GSP
If you don't like the way the institution is run find another.

This is the first moan of its kind i have seen, and should imagine a very very small minority if there are any others.

Posted By Alan Hoskins
I can see you are aggrieved Vic (and Salus), but your argument about time and money is flawed under the current CPD scheme.

You can award yourself points for all sorts of activities, such as developing procedures at work, reading books or articles, even attending a local branch meeting once in a while!

In fact, any activity that maintains or increases your competence level and this can often be things you already do as part of your job.

Best wishes.

Alan (the other one)

Posted By AHS
I think IOSH have acted very professionally with their CPD scheme.

Im happy to be a part of an organisation that ensures its members keep up to date with the latest developments in their field of competence.

Posted By peter gotch
Salus - you wrote....

"Individuals have stated it is not expensive, but controllers of these schemes are not interested in how individuals perceive their EXPENSES, they are concerned with the 10's of thousands of individuals all allocating a certain amount of their money which probably adds up to an extra £100.000 income per annum to the controller of the scheme."

Why do you think our expenses end up in the pocket of the controller, ie IOSH? Of course I don't pay expenses to IOSH. Petrol or train fares to travel 250 miles in 2 years not a major cost.

So what adds up to "extra income per annum to the controller of the scheme"?

Peter Longworth - amongst other issues chartered status likely to be good for your pay package especially if you work alongside chartered members of other professional bodies. Helps the employer benchmark their H&S advisers against other professional staff.

Regards, Peter

Posted By I McDonald
V,

"Now, like many Tech IOSH members, who have not registered for CPD, I face the loss of my Tech IOSH designation w.e.f 31/03/07"?

Why have you done nothing about registering for CPD sooner? Do not know how long you have been involved in H&S or how old you are (and do not really care) but some of us may think back to the days when there was no TechSP status. It was Associate or corporate level only!! All or nothing. IOSH have worked on developing a sound structure of membership that allows members to progress once certain set down criteria has been met. This structure does not disadvantage you in any way it just seems to be inconvenient for you. Well that's life. I personally think that CPD is essential but hate completing the CPD records. I still complete the records as it is a requirement of maintaining my professional status within IOSH.

As a mater of interest, over the last few years when the restructuring has been widely publicised and communicated, how many times have you attended branch meetings to voice you concerns? How often have you contacted IOSH to voice your concerns? Perhaps (I suspect it is the case), you merely thought it would not concern you and turned to the jobs pages of the SHP but now it has a direct impact (and inconvenience to you), you are now voicing concerns (although to late).

Our profession requires us to manage change and yet it seems that some of our members are more reluctant to change than the people we educate and keep safe.

Ian
Worked through grades from Associate to CMIOSH without complaint.

Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Q. What do lawyers, accountants, engineers, teachers, surveys, architects, pharmacists, and pharmacy technicians, Legal Executives, Vets, doctors and nurses all have in common?

A. They all have to be accountable for their Continual Professional Development.

CPD is now simply inescapable whatever profession you wish to practice and it is part of our process of demonstrating on-going competence.

Posted By Jane Blunt
Descarte - CPD has been around a lot longer than two years. My paperwork is at home, but I reckon I am on my fourth or fifth two-year cycle now.

Jane