Posted By Richard_Sams Hi, It is apparent that there is far more availability of courses to enable someone from a design background to become qualified in health and safety than vice versa. In order for someone to be deemed competent to deliver the CDMC service as an individual, they are expected to demonstrate a suitable level of knowledge in design, health and safety and the construction process. Does anyone know of some suitable design course options for individuals that already have knowledge of the construction process, significant health and safety qualifications but require design knowledge without going as far as becoming a qualified to degree or diploma level in architecture or engineering? Thanks in advance Richard

Posted By Richard_Sams Thanks for that Steve and I take your point completely. All professions require long periods of study and years of experience before an individual can be deemed competent. My interest is in the different approaches for training someone to become a CDMC. For almost all professions there are structured academic routes which when combined with the relevant experience enables one to operate at a defined level of competency. As the role of CDMC is a very new role there are as yet no structured routes into the profession. Instead one often finds CDMCs that are health and safety practitioners with little or no design qualifications and experience, or CDMCs from a design background with no little or no health and safety qualifications or experience. There are however a number of health and safety qualifications available to someone from a design background so that they may move some way toward meeting the criteria for a competent CDMC. On the other hand there isn't such as abundance of design courses available to health and safety practitioners. Just as architects, engineers etc are not expected to hold a BSc or Diploma in Health and Safety in order to practice as a CDMC it is not necessary for someone who holds a BSc in Health & Safety to then go as far as to study a degree in architecture or engineering. If you take a young inexperienced individual in terms of CDMC delivery, who is qualified to BSc level in Health & Safety, has experience in the construction industry but little or no experience or education in civil/structural/M&E design, what would be a good starting point in terms of a design related course that can be incorporated into a training programme to compliment experience gained by working along side other CDMCs? Regards Richard

Posted By Bob Youel Its still the case that H&S is seen as being less professional than other professions' hence a designer, farmer, fisherman, marketing manager, HR manager, lawyer, etc can move to H&S easier than a H&S person can move in the opposite direction! I have great respect for the CDMC's [I have acted as a PS in the past on large complex jobs] for those that I know however it is the case that there are many designers out there who have the most basic design qualifications and basic H&S qua-lies but are operating on large complex sites as CDMC's and are more respected by clients as a CDMC via design can show the CDM guidance to a client to prove where the regs place a designer but a H&S professional is not mentioned in the regs so they cannot impress the client in the same way! Additionally there are many H&S professionals who are expert in many areas but not construction so I advise all those in that situation to obtain competence and or call on support as needed On an underground job that I recently appraised neither the CDMC nor the H&S adviser had any experience of underground plant rooms, especially the M&E areas, so you can see where they were going yet both had glamorous business cards

Posted By willhiem would the formulation of a programme of study for such a role not be totally justified by now. I dont think a lot of designers understand the role and think once they stick in a few anchor points on a roof its safe yet you could have ten people up there in a week!! aesthetics still take precedence over safety in their minds, safety is still an after thought!!

Posted By willhiem not sure exactly but a cdmc cant actually specify changed to be made because then they become liable to be classed as designers, the role is still a little vague, its a general policing job of asking oh did you think of / do that or what are the plans for this etc. so control is pretty minimal!!

Posted By willhiem indeed, we seem to agree on the same points. client or PM's though still dont recognise such roles and in some cases i thin designers feel agrieved that they are out of the loop with this and therefore turn a blind eye to it and think they still have ultimate control. it will take a hard line approach or else in build it into a manditory cpd for them before they realise what they have to do. but thatcould result in developing a know it all sense!! so still a few issues to be ironed out i reckon

Posted By Carl West Just going back to the original question, Maybe take a design qualification to compliment your H&S quals ?

Posted By James M The trouble is that you can qualify to be RMaPS and NOT comply with the CDM ACOP. To get your MaPS registered member qualification under the new scheme, you need 2 points in H&S. The CSCS touch screen test and a one day scaffold inspection course gets you this. The CDM ACOP states on page 50 para 231 and appendix 4 page 111 that for individual competency for a CDM C you are expected to hold a NEBOSH construction certificate or equivalent. I don't know of an equivalent qualification so NEBOSH construction cert is it. It would be interesting to see the outcome of a court case where the CDM C relies on his RMaPS qualification verses the CDM ACOP regarding individual competency.