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#1 Posted : 05 October 2008 10:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By DennisH Lots of threads on here about working and living in the Middle East. I've been out here for ten years (Saudi), and my experiences are generally positive. Reasonable standard of living, decent rewards and if you can put up with the restrictions and time away from friends and family, you can make a decent go of it. The article in the Guardian/Observer today makes interesting reading for anyone thinking about taking the plunge, and while it does highlight the negative aspects, and the stuff that'll make the headlines, I think that it illustrates that you need a particular mindset to work here. http://www.guardian.co.u...oct/05/middleeast.gender
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#2 Posted : 05 October 2008 17:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By martin park hi would the person who posted the thread please email me so i can email you back. i have some questions to ask you if thats ok marv19@hotmail.co.uk
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#3 Posted : 06 October 2008 11:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jane Lowe This is certainly an interesting article and I would urge anyone thinking of moving to Dubai to read it. Still hasn't changed my mind but good to see a different point of view Jane
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#4 Posted : 06 October 2008 12:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andrew J I live in Abu Dhabi - and although it is a few years behind Dubai in construction development - the main theme of this story are also very right for here too. It is an amazing place to live and work - with many benefits - but you give up a lot to live here - and technically it is "Tax-Free" but the local authorities and the locals make sure that you keep most of your salary in the country - high prices for schooling, utilities,services - not to mention the out of control pricing for housing - particularly for in Abu Dhabi - it was reported here last week that 2 bedroom apartments start from 200,000 Dhs - that is nearly 30,000 pounds - and you would be very lucky to find at decent, clean one for that!! It is so true about the next generation of locals - they have all the money, power, influence they could want - they don't know what to do with themselves. They live at home with their parents until they marry - with multiple maids, nannys, drivers, watchmen, etc - and when they marry the government pays for everything for them to move into their own home with maids, nannys, drivers, watchmen, etc. I am not saying do not come - but come with your eyes open, with more patience then you thought you could draw on - as it is the one thing you will need. Although I can not believe the reported behaviour of the 2 people in Dubai - I can see how can happen very easily - it is easy to just "do western things" and fall into a false sense of security that this is just like home only hotter! For example I find my wife and I holding hands as we walk down the street or in a mall - not on purpose but as a habit - that is until I notice the looks we getting - particularly from the locals - now technically that is not allowed and can get us into trouble. Sorry from rambling on - after reading that article I just could not stop thinking about how true most of is.
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#5 Posted : 06 October 2008 13:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Winsley Dubai and its associated 'society' sounds like a very unpleasant place to live. Quite happy with wet old Blighty, less cash but much more tolerant society. This article should be compulsory reading for anyone wanting to go and live there, before making the decision.
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#6 Posted : 06 October 2008 13:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By DennisH Well said Andrew. 80 or 90 grand a year sounds great 'till you find that it's 40 grand for the house, 10 grand a year for school fees, insurance, travel, vehicle, etc. Someone on another thread gave some great advice about the questions to ask reference the package you are offered and there's been at least one on here had his fingers burnt. Bottom line? Make darned sure you're getting the right deal, then go for it! Martin, You got mail, ask away.
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#7 Posted : 06 October 2008 15:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jane Lowe Is the list of questions to ask re package still available? It would be good to have a look Thanks
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#8 Posted : 06 October 2008 19:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andrew Lochlyn Ure I've been watching these threads on these forums with great interest. I currently work in Oman - from my purely subjective view, a much better place to be than Dubai. I've also worked and lived in Russia and Australia and briefly in South Africa, Brunei, Sri Lanka, Abu Dhabi, Qatar and yes, Dubai. The one thing that I would say, along with a number of others who have posted sensibly on the subject, is this - do not be fooled by stories of the streets being paved with gold and being able to make vast sums of money instantaneously. You won't, unless you are either very, very lucky, or a criminal. Also, the comments I see being made by ex-pats who voice surprise that "Western behaviour" (often a euphemism for acting atrociously and with no respect for their hosts) is frowned upon astonish me. The GCC region are a group of Muslim countries with a different belief structure to the UK, and a society which differs in several fundamental ways. In Dubai, yes of course you can drink Guiness until you fall over, play golf on a grass golf course and drive around in a Lexus but unless you remind yourself frequently that the immediate trappings of your life are a bubble, and outside of that bubble is a Muslim city in the United Arab Emirates run by a family of multi-multi-multi-billionaires as a cross between rampant capitalism and benign dictatorship, then you're likely to come a cropper. My most powerful memory of Dubai is the last time I flew back to Heathrow from there in the Business Class cabin of an Emirates Boeing 777. I was surrounded, predominantly, by orange coloured Brits rattling with gold bling they'd bought at the gold souk, and covered from head to foot in designer labels. That, for me, was quite enough of that. And then just last year I happened to be standing in the Immigration Hall at Domodedovo Airport in Moscow, and an Emirates Airbus discharged it's cargo of a couple of hundred Russians, and guess what? They were all bright orange and rattling with gold bling they'd bought at the gold souk, and covered from head to foot in designer labels.
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#9 Posted : 07 October 2008 06:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andrew J When considering coming over here to work or live these are things I can think of to ask/consider in your package. I have two children so I will include family issues. - Base Salary - Working week (a large percentage of companies work 6 day weeks - Friday being the weekend) - Working hours - 45 hrs a week minimum is standard - Accommodation provision - housing supplied or allowance paid - make sure you can get suitable accommodation for the amount offered in a reasonable location. - It is standard for rent to be paid for the year up front - a lot of companies pay this for you the first year and then deduct that out of you salary - the only issue is that they also make you pay it back very quickly as you also have to save for next year, so that can mean basically no salary for a year if you are paying a high rent! Check what the company policy is and do your sum carefully! - Schooling allowance - and for how many children (it is common for only 2 or 3 children to be paid for)- it usually does not cover the actual costs but helps. - Schooling / Nursery - find out if there places available in suitable schools (this a big problem in Abu Dhabi) - some companies can help through connections! - It is law that family medical insurance is provided - but make sure you are happy with the level of coverage - Travel/Car allowance - allowance for you to purchase/run a vehicle and an annual flight to home country - Relocation costs - hotels for a couple of nights either side, relocation flight, taxis, etc - Shipping costs - will the company pay to move any of your furniture etc, if not is there an allowance to refurnish - Visa / Labour Cards, Medical, etc - will the company pay for all these items for you and your family - Some companies will fly our over to have a look at the place first - if they offer take it and look - use it wisely look at housing, schools, travelling times, the amount of traffic, the weather etc - not just the big shopping malls! If the company does not offer this, seriously consider paying for it yourself. - Sick leave and annual leave is pretty standard - but make sure you are happy with what is in the package. Other things to consider: - Remember your will be sponsored by the company so moving job is very hard and can land you a 6-12 month employment ban - so make sure you know as much about the company and conditions as you can. Remember if it is not written in the contract it does not exist - do not take anybodies word for it. And here even if it is written in the contract does not mean it is set in stone. - If you have a partner - it is illegal for unmarried couples to live together - plenty do, so pretend that they are married - it is not a show stopper but be aware - so landlords will not let you rent, so companies will not sponsor unmarried partners. - If you have the choice make sure you sponsor your partner - not your company - that means you have more control over your lives and if they work - they can change jobs more easily as you have control - not the company. - It is an indoor life for a lot of the year make sure you can handle that and more importantly your family can. - Parking - when looking at housing try to get secured parking - sounds like a silly thing but after a 10-11 hour day 6 days a week - the last thing you need if you live in an apartment is an hour looking for a park within half an hours walk of your home! - Remember that these cities (Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Muscat and Doha) look and feel modern - but a lot of the services are not to the standard you expect. - One thing we have found in Abu Dhabi is the health care has been very good for our children. - Although illegal, some companies will ask to hold your passport and will write that into your employment contract - get them to take it out and tell them you will be holding the passport - they will remove it as soon as they are asked! This does not include the religious, social considerations - I just focused on employment packages and some living conditions. I am sure I forgot something but this is very good start when looking at an offer.
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#10 Posted : 07 October 2008 07:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Marshall With reference to the above comments, may I ask why over 100,000 expatriate workers from the UK are currently in Dubai if the place is so bad? I currently live and work here along with my young family and are enjoying the experiences of living in such an environment. I agree things may be a little restrictive at times, but to the average person these are not difficult to comply with. It is amazing how people can comment on such places when they have not even experinced it etc.. Know reference to the intial postee. In summary, the vast majority of people I work alongside and socialise with appear to be in no rush to jump on a flight back to the UK either!! Rant over with, I guess it is down to personal prefernces. Richard.
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#11 Posted : 07 October 2008 09:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By M.B Well said Richard, I have found you work most places in the world there are unique problems and Dubai certainly has those. The problems encountered are pretty unique and you can't go hiding behind legislation half the time, you have to sort the problem out and promote safety with the tools you have, and I personally find that rewarding. So my advise to those griping about the place, go somewhere else! Lovely and warm though.....
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#12 Posted : 07 October 2008 11:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By DennisH Sorry Gents, I didn't see anything really negative in either of my posts. I wasn't particularly singling Dubai out either, though that was the focus of the article. It just seemed an appropriate article to post in light of the number of Middle East job threads. In fact I, and most of the other posters actually encouraged people to go for it. The only totally negative remark was from someone who didn't like the sound of it and preferred to stay in the UK - fair play to him, he's entitled to his view. Exposure to a completely different culture has been a rewarding experience for me, and for the family when I was fortunate enough to have them here with me. Once my wife got used to the idea of wearing an Abaya in public, not being allowed to drive etc. she loved it here and would/will come back in a heartbeat. You're dead right about the weather though. Beautiful mornings and evenings for the next four or five months. ;o)
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