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#1 Posted : 06 November 2008 08:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By JWG Good morning. I'm currently working for a consultancy company and I have been asked to provide consultancy to a friend independantly. In the future it is my intention to provide it to other companies. In my current job, clients are already signed up with the company (via sales reps) before I see them so I don't think there is a conflict of interest. In the additional role I will not utilise/copy any information from my employer. Does my current employer have a justified cause for concern? Are they able to restrict my right to work? What is best advised - sole trader or Ltd company? and what are the pit falls. What is the going rate for consultancy these days? Many thanks....
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#2 Posted : 06 November 2008 08:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Guderian Tread carfefully. You will probably find that it is your contract of employment not to undertake such extra work. You will be seen as acting against your employer interest and in direct competition with them. If you do set up alone, there will also probably be a clause in your contract of employment where, they might try and limit you ability to set up business within a certain distance and within a certain time after leaving (typically 18mths). And also a clause that you won't approach old clients for possible business, within the same timescale. These are standard clauses in contracts of employment in the h&s consultancy world. Depends how much 'hardball' your current employer might want to play.
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#3 Posted : 06 November 2008 09:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By JWG Thanks for your comments. I have not been informed of terms relating to the above comments. I was just given a typical employee handbook which it is not mentioned in there. Does anyone no what the legal status would for them to try to force me to agree with their terms even though I wasn't previously informed? Do I have an obligation to inform my employer? Thanks.
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#4 Posted : 06 November 2008 12:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By David Bannister JWG, I believe "doing foreigners" is dishonest, deceitful and wrong, unless specifically accepted by our employers, particularly in a role as a consultant. Presumable you would look to use your employers reference materials, templates, tools etc too. Doing a one-off job for a friend may be OK but to develop a competing business is not OK in my view, whilst remaining employed. In my previous employed role I would have expected to be disciplined/dismissed if I was discovered doing unauthorised work and I am pretty sure that this was explicit in my contract then. If an employee of mine was to do this then I would look to stop the practice and dismiss for any further breaches of trust. If you are a member of IOSH then I urge you to take a close look at the Code of Conduct. I feel very strongly about this subject as you may have gathered!
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#5 Posted : 06 November 2008 13:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By peter gotch and JWG your employer's PII insurance might be up for grabs if you get in wrong on a homer job. There is previous history of this happening in circumstances where the employer was wholly unaware of what their employee was doing at the weekends. p
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#6 Posted : 06 November 2008 14:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By JWG I understand your concerns but what about my right to work? If I fulfill my contract (hours/work etc) then I can't see that the concerns are justifiable enough to sack me. There are many people out there that have two jobs. Would someone working at Tesco be sacked for also working at Asda? Comments welcome...
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#7 Posted : 06 November 2008 15:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By David Bannister JWG, there's a good chance that the Tesco buyer working for Asda would rapidly find that Tesco no longer needed their services. A UK Gov't employee who offered their services to Iran has recently been convicted and is currently awaiting sentence. Their Gov't job has disappeared. Be prepared for a P45.
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#8 Posted : 06 November 2008 16:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By HoneyB Hello, Sorry to badge in but I'm relatively new in the UK work system. Can somebody working full time 5 days a week offer do some other job during the weekend. The weekend job is home-based and ranges from document review to some sort of consultancy. The first job is not a consultancy job and there's nothing in the contract to that effect. What's the legal stand?
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#9 Posted : 06 November 2008 16:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Guderian I think the point is that what you are suggesting is in direct competition with your current employer's business. If you did H&S consultancy Mon-Fri and then worked as a taxi driver, for example, over the weekend - then you are doing a 2nd job un-related to your employers business and hence not in competition. DOn't think this would be a problem. I think its all a matter of employment contract law. Regardless of the specifics, I'm sure a standard clause in contracts of employment are that you will not undertake other employed work without informing your main employer. If the other work is in competition with your main job, then I would think you would be on very sticky ground and would quite reasonably be asked to consider your position - if not I'm sure a P45 would follow quite quickly. Then there is also the matter of informing HM Revenue about your 2nd job and the tax implications of it. Also any reports etc that you might need to write, would I presume be done at home - so you would then have to (in theory) tell your local council that you are running a business from home, so that would be a change of use of your property. This would possibly attract a business rates charge. You would also have to tell your house insurance company - they would want to know about business equipment on the premises, cash etc. You would also have to register the business with the local Environmental Health Dept - being an office type set up, they could possibly inspect under HASAWA etc. (There may even be elements of the old Office, Shops and Railway Premises Act still in force - any experts on this? - apologies if title not quoted correctly or indeed if totally repealed!! - not my area of expertise) You also need to consider professional liability insurance, if you give bad advice. Its all very well saying it just advice for a mate, but if it all went pear shaped then you might regret not having insurance cover....
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#10 Posted : 06 November 2008 16:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By graeme12345 if you are working full time PAYE or freelance for a company do not do any other work in this time. If you do consultancy work out of work time you could do it without informing your employer, but will effect Inland revenue / Nat ins. etc. maybe you should address your question to non consultants members. As far as using / copying / formatting systems from your existing company is concerned "of course other consultants never do / did this" when they started up you work for a consultancy so must know the going rate
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#11 Posted : 06 November 2008 19:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Altoft JWG - my opinion is as follows, others might not agree. I run a consultancy and would not trust anyone who worked for me and who also did private work in "their " own time not to let their private work encroach into "my space" by the odd phone call, the looking up of a problem in my time, use of Internet etc. Such habits soon extend into stealing clients, copying documents and using licensed software or training materials for own advantage. There is a concept of intellectual property which means knowledge gained whilst in a company belongs to the company. Professionalism is also an issue. Any of my staff doing this would be dismissed immediately and would be reported to IOSH on Code of Conduct grounds. I would risk any come back.
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#12 Posted : 06 November 2008 20:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By JWG After considering all your comments I have made a decision. I VALUE MY STEADY WAGE TO MUCH THEREFORE I WILL NOT BE DOING CONSULTANCY ON THE SIDE. All your comments were gratefully welcome. Many thanks..
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#13 Posted : 07 November 2008 08:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By cdthomas Hi JW, Shame you've given up so easily? I am just posting you what you need to do via Inland Rev etc etc If you pursued your dream , you would have to tell the Inland revenue within 3 months of your self-employment status-alsowould you be VAT registered? Currently the threshold is 67,000 before you HAVE to be VAT registered, below that and it's up to you. Would have to consider the Data protection Act also, if you went on the ICO website, its easier enough to follow whether you need to be registered or not, if you do, it costs 35.oo for the year. I was going to set up as a Book-keeper from home but didnt need to inform the council about it, worth ringing them though just incase. I can fully appreciate what people are saying about poaching clients etc etc, as long as you didnt do that-I cant see why you dont set up on your own-there has to be a cross-over point surely? You cant walk out of your job on a friday and set up on the monday with no clients??? You would have done the marketing bit before that to see whether it was viable? Hope i've been of some help? I keep landing myself in hot water here so am trying to be careful lol c
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