Posted By Mike Parks
I am still looking for my first start in H&S but an advert I saw on a jobsite I would not even consider.

It was for a H&S Officer. The job was to deal with H&S of staff on various sites. However the salary offered was only £12000pa. This is less than what I am earning just now and I am not even in H&S.

If a company is offering such a salary I dread to think what they are wanting in return both in ability and support of the H&S Officer.



Mike

Posted By Jim T
I sometimes smile when I read the jobs in the back of SHP when they ask for:

"10 years experience, CMIOSH, degree qualified" all for 25K per year!

Posted By CW
Maybe the companies value of H&S is reflected in the salary.

Posted By Mr. S. R. Clegg
I have been looking for H & S position for 3 months, I have 11 years H & S experience. A local firm are advertising for a H & S
Co-ordinator 07-00 till 18-00 six days a week
£7-50 per hour. No chance !!!

Posted By Jason McQueen
My first full-time position (albeit a junior one) in H&S was at the 16k mark and this was 2001. I've been fortunate enough to progress beyond this in subsequent years though but I suppose it comes down to how eager you are to get into the industry as to what you'd accept.

Posted By GeoffB4
You don't think pride might come into it Charley?

I personally wouldn't work for a company that offered that type of salary.

Posted By CFT
Geoff

For some undoubtedly, but as Mum always used to say; "if you want to get on son, you need a job, and any money is better than no money."

I'd personally leave my pride in bed and take it, given the chance to start over again, (thank goodness I don't have to though :-)

All the best

Charley

Posted By CFT
1970 Paul, a High St tailoring company whilst waiting to go on to further education (not sure we made reference to a 'gap' year then, it was probably called girls & beer), it was a full time position 40 hours a week and included Saturday working, we did get commission but they made some very narrow goal posts to score through; methinks they might have been touching.

From memory the next was £50 a week :-)

Which is why I would have no reservations in recommending a low paid safety job; it will likely be more than fine to get a smattering of H&S work experience, it is more than JSA will pay, and it will be motivating.

Cripes Paul, you have made me think now, it was poor for certain, and as a saddy, I still have that first wage slip, (Mum kept it in her files and came across it when clearing things up)as you do sadly :-(

Anyway, I digress from OHS and don't want to get modded so will say;

Chow fer now

Charley

Charley

Posted By David Passmore
Mike has started an interesting debate and as indicated by the responses, the concensus is divided as to whether one would accept the role for which must be at or around the minimum wage.

As I indicated in my post earlier, Mike would have to decide whether his hunger for a H&S position would allow him to forfeit his current role for a lower wage to gain H&S experience which as we all know is vital in obtaining progression within the H&S profession.

I also suggested to enquire what the role entails - indeed, I have seen such roles advertised at that wage and they have transpired to be more administrative that hands on health and safety. Having checked the job spec, only Mike can decide if this position would be suitable for him and his personal development.

It may be a little unfair to suggest that a company offering such a low wage may not be fully committed to H&S. I could potentialy agree with that assertion if the company in question was a multi - national or other large organisation, however, it may be that the business in question may be a very small enterprise and perhaps £12,000 may be a significant outlay for that company which suggests that they are doing their utmost to ensure the safety of their workers.

I think job satisfaction should also be considered as well as remuneration.

My current situation is that I was made redundant from my position of Health & Safety Officer in a large manufacturing facility and let me asure you - it is difficult out there, and although I am in the fortunate position to be able to afford such a meagre salary, if that position was offered to me today - I would jump at the chance (subject to job spec of course).

So until the true facts of the role are known, the only negative aspect is in fact the salary and I do hope that Mike at least enquires about it.

Posted By David Passmore
My sentiments exactly ITK.

Look on it as an apprenticeship and consider the long term prospects.
DP

Posted By David Passmore
Safe System - you should indeed consider yourself spoilt. I was in the same situation as you - started my position from NEBOSH General, salary just under £30k - unfortunately, the rug was pulled from under my feet in the form of redundancy.

Until someone is in the position of being kicked of the H&S career ladder completely or attempting to climb on the first rung - maybe perceptions of a seemingly low paid position within the industry (particularly in the current climate) may alter.

As I stated in an earlier post, I would have no qualms of at least considering such a position as I do not percieve myself as 'too good' or find it humiliating to earn just over 12k p.a. in a job I really enjoy and find rewarding.

Let me tell you - Having to 'sign on' at jobseekers every fortnight (for just over £50 per week)is a much lesser evil than having to work for 12k with potentially some job satisfaction and a genuine reason to get up in the morning.

Rant over! Caffeine and blood sugar levels need replenishing.
DP

Posted By Safe System
DP - tell me about it.. the company i was with went bust in the recession.. so i just scraped it.. started on a training H&S role with no experience at around 24k.. lost my job on a Tuesday..started with a new company on the Wednesday!

Ive come to realise that H&S and especially the construction industry is about WHO you know when it comes to getting a job.

My bubble may burst soon.. nobody knows

But agree... best to do a job you enjoy and get paid something for it then get paid nothing for doing nothing!

Posted By Dave Wilson
Jim another ditty,(I was a CDO MA)

When I was in 40 CDO at Seaton (81) the RN/RM was traying to get everyone paid into the bank, so had a pay parade on the Main Drill square and were told that the next time (14 days) they would have to run for the money if they didn't have a bank account.

Next pay parade was on the top of the Dewerstone??? (Dartmoor) about 80 guys had to run there and back to get paid. Next pay parade was cancelled as everyone was getting paid into a bank!!!

Posted By Dave Wilson
Unless you were a Bootneck (Royal Marine) you would not understand mate, apologies

Posted By Steve Moir
FIRST Health and Safety Officer:
Aye, very passable, that, very passable bit of risotto.

SECOND Health and Safety Officer:
Nothing like a good glass of Château de Chasselas, eh, Josiah?

THIRD Health and Safety Officer:
You're right there, Obadiah.

FOURTH Health and Safety Officer:
Who'd have thought thirty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh?

FIRST Health and Safety Officer:
In them days we was glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.

SECOND Health and Safety Officer:
A cup o' cold tea.

FOURTH Health and Safety Officer:
Without milk or sugar.

THIRD Health and Safety Officer:
Or tea.

FIRST Health and Safety Officer:
In a cracked cup, an' all.

FOURTH Health and Safety Officer:
Oh, we never had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.

SECOND Health and Safety Officer:
The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.

THIRD Health and Safety Officer:
But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.

FIRST Health and Safety Officer:
Because we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness, son".

FOURTH Health and Safety Officer:
Aye, 'e was right.

FIRST Health and Safety Officer:

Aye, 'e was.

FOURTH Health and Safety Officer:
I was happier then and I had nothin'. We used to live in this tiny old house with great big holes in the roof.

SECOND Health and Safety Officer:
House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, 'alf the floor was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner for fear of falling.

THIRD Health and Safety Officer:
Eh, you were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in t' corridor!

FIRST Health and Safety Officer:
Oh, we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Would ha' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woke up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House? Huh.

FOURTH Health and Safety Officer:
Well, when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us.

SECOND Health and Safety Officer:
We were evicted from our 'ole in the ground; we 'ad to go and live in a lake.

THIRD Health and Safety Officer:
You were lucky to have a lake! There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' road.

FIRST Health and Safety Officer:
Cardboard box?

THIRD Health and Safety Officer:
Aye.

FIRST Health and Safety Officer:
You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

SECOND Health and Safety Officer:
Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!

THIRD Health and Safety Officer:
Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.

FOURTH Health and Safety Officer:
Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.

FIRST Health and Safety Officer:
And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.

ALL:
They won't!

Posted By WDM
Personally could never see the point in running around in mud and such like, living in holes in the ground - just so you can say I've got a nice green/maroon hat - and all for so little money and the privilage of getting shot at.

Think after my first 2 weeks, in 1982, I got £90, a nice light blue hat, soft shoes and slept in a bed just about every night - and then much better dosh after qualifying.

To answer the original post, £12k is pretty pathetic, you might as well get a job on the dustbins - would have thought that it would pay more. I went through £12k probably about 1986 as a young engineer.

General safety jobs etc are still pretty badly paid - but then again, for a career that isn't recognised as being professional and or has a WELL/CLEAR recognised career/academic structure (despite what IOSH say) - then employers will always pay the minimum that they can get away with and individuals will continue to call themselves 'safety consultants' while completing the minimum of training.

Stands back waiting for the angry responses...

Posted By Watto
You lot have been watching too much spongebob.

Posted By WDM
Understandable words about self development - but try telling that to your mortgage company and your hungry children - I want self development, so will work for under the market rate, I won't bother paying my mortgage or feeding the kids.

I would have thought the £12k originally mentioned would be for some form of safety department admin job.

To put the £12k salary into perspective - when I first started in h&s in 1996, my salary then was £19k + car, so equivalent to maybe £23-24k region.

Yet 13yrs later, there are still safety jobs paying similar or less.

Until people refuse to work for yes, such pathetic salaries, employers will continue to try and get away with such renumeration.

For those who are unfortunate to be currently unemployed - sure you need a job and there is downwards pressure on salaries - I also recognise the need for self esteem to be seen to be working.

However there is also pride & self esteem in valuing your skills, training and qualifications and not underselling yourself or indeed the professions of h&s management/adviser work. Until you secure an h&s job paying better than £12k, if it was me, I would work in a different sector.

I do however repeat again that most general h&s roles are not particularly well paid.

You only need compare the oil/gas sector to see how relatively badly paid the general sector is.

It is not too difficult to earn £45-60k in this sector, and often more - recently seen safety engineering jobs paying £70k & £80k. So while still not in the region of our famous banking friends, still a comfortable salary for most people.

Posted By Brando
I think anyone who comes into health and safety thinking the pay is good needs a good talking to. Generally the pay is not good taking into account what we have to know and the responsibilities we take on.Yep - some big money is out there but you have to earn it and the big jobs don't come up that often.Most seem to be under 30k.

Anyone offering 12k either does not value health and safety at all or only has a very limited budget. Either way - avoid them.

Judging by the posts on this forum getting a first start in health and safety is getting harder and harder. Long term effects might be that we will face a shortage of qualified and experienced safety people in a few years time.

Posted By David Passmore
Absolutely Brando.

For anyone not happy with their lot in a H&S role or indeed feel they are being undervalued - well, there is the option of getting out of it.

There are many trades and professions whose salaries have not kept pace with inflation in real terms, but we are all in a very competitive jobs market right now and prospective employers can be very selective and demanding with who they decide to recruit and on the salary they are prepared to offer.

Should any candidate for a position be unhappy with the salary offered or refuse to apply for it as a matter of 'principle', there will invariably be someone who will. I can guarantee the position on offer at 12k+ will be filled.

I am in a very fortunate position (financially - not employment wise ) where there are no economic pressures on me, but drawing jobseekers is something I detest. Someone suggested in an earlier post that pride would suppress their desire to work for a very low wage. If you think that doing meaningful work at near NMW is demeaning, try attending jobseekers.

I worked my way up from the shop floor and have been employed continuously for over 35 years. Let me tell you - I would certainly take a suitable H&S role for just over 12k - not out of desperation, but to do a job I enjoy and take pride in doing.

Criticising a role at 12k is all too easy being within the comfort zone of being in employment, however, As I stated earlier, unless you are in a similar situation (as I am sure many of you are), perceptions will change I can assure you.

DP