Posted By Gerry Marr
Hello all Job Seekers,

I have just been looking through the careers forum for its intended purpose (helping people)and I am some what appalled by the email addresses and user-names some people actually use, not to mention the headings like "Give me a job"!!!!!


As an Employer of many Health, Safety and Environment Consultants including Trainers I think that presentation is everything when making contact with potential Employers.
Some of these I open to make me laugh, not to find out more.


I held interviews for a number of positions last week and a Lady came in as if she was just back from a drug induced weekend at Stonehenge, granted she was a lovely person whom no doubt was capable of fulfilling the position comfortably but I thought that if a Client walked in to a Consultancy Company and seen someone from the TVs Time Time they would not be too impressed.

JOBSEEKERS, step up a gear when you go on to any careers forum, use a good heading, some thing that will make a Employer look at, use a good professional user-name and make your "advert" appealing, history of you and your experience, qualifications, family life, what you like at work and outside, Employers want to know where you live, where you want to work, where you travel to etc...


There is a recession, step up a gear Job Seekers.

Gerry Marr

Posted By Sen Sar


btw Mr Laptop........please lead by example!!

I choose not to put my work email as I do not want this abused in anyway.

Posted By Andy Petrie
But if I interview two people with eaqual ability, the smartly presented on will get the job!

You are taking a big risk by assuming you'll be the best at an interview and therefore turning up in your gardening clothes.

Posted By Richard Altoft
Fully agree with Mr Marr.
If I was seeking to take anyone on to act as a representative of the company that carries my name they would have to be smart and presentable both personally and in terms of written and spoken communications and be competent. If they present as anything less they will not be considered.
The applications I get more often than not indicate failure to take reasonable care about getting things right and so they go in the shredder.Very few get a call back.
R

Posted By clairel
I have frequently tried to point out that potential job seekers should be presenting themselves better on this forum if they want work (better spelling & grammar and presentation). I tend to get a poor response to my suggestion so I don't bother anymore.

Appearance isn't everything but it does get you a foot in the door. If I was an employer I wouldn't look twice at a badly presented and badly worded post. How can that person write professional letters and reports if they can't even put the effort in when job hunting??

Yes I'm old fashioned in my approach. But so what? I'm not the one who struggles to get employment and so I guess that says a lot!

Job hunters sit up and take note of this thread IMO!!

Posted By Tanka-Ray
Well said.

Recruitment is a two-way process. Just as a potential employee needs to make an effort, potential employers need to be mindful of their 'image' too. The interviewers who chew gum and send text messages during your presentation, emails from agencies IN OVEREXCITED ALLCAPS SHOUTY STYLE (with the obligatory red exclamation mark naturally), no call after an unsuccessful interview, poor feedback or sometimes none at all, these will all be familiar to most seasoned job-hunters. I'm not moaning, just pointing out that employers too could do with 'stepping it up a gear'.

Thanks

Posted By Sen Sar

I do believe it’s a two way process.

I remember (age is a wonderful thing) turning down posts offered to me, for various reasons.

It’s rather sad that most employers today think they are doing the employee a favour by hiring them.

Yes I’m an employer and probably not grammatically correct some of the time, if I aint most of the time!

Posted By Phil Rose
Hi, tried to quickly read and assimilate the various comments. I have worked in HR for a good while and been involved in the recruitment process many times. I will also add that the interview/recruitment process can be very 'false' and arbitrary at best. We have used consultants, Myers etc etc etc, you name it, and we have on more than one occasion employed someone that absolutely shined at interview and through the process but subsequently turned out to be a total 'duffer'. In fairness that could have been 'our' fault because we hadn't 'spec'ed' the job correctly or whatever, but be aware that no recruitment process is perfect and while I tend to agree that it is important to create the right impression, there may well be some who adopt the 'Yosser Hughes' approach that may well be the right candidate that falls by the wayside!

Posted By Gus
Heather

I disagree with your comment that Employers don't have to "step up a gear",my experience of both employers and agencies over the years, shows some of them to be very poor at running a professional recruitment.

Recruitment is a two way process, I expect to be treated fairly and with courtesy throughout the process,and not all employers (or agencies) do that. In my view this probably reflects the way they run their business and treat their people, and it would certainly help my decision making when considering an offer.

Gus

Posted By CFT
Brett

I'd agree with you 100% on your comments; if this is focused on agency advertising, or an appointed person/company to advertise/fill a position for an organisation.

Charley

Posted By Larry
One of my previous employers (not H/S) used to invite people in for a “come as you are informal chat”. There was no such thing and people actually turned up in mini skirts, wide open blouses and lord knows what (luckily I didn’t, as I got changed in my car). Feedback was never given to those candidates who dressed down, they were just not invited back.

I went for a H/S job in London in 2007. Ten of us were short listed and invited to have a tour of the workplace together. Nine of us turned up in suits, one turned up in an open shirt and yellow hi-vis jacket. Within seconds we were whittled down to nine, mind you, the hi-vis jacket was clean which seams to be a rarity these days.

Our profession requires a certain level of brains, discipline, conformity, ability to follow procedures, policies and standard setting. My opinion is that if you cannot use your grey matter and dress smartly at least once to set an example then maybe H/S isn’t for you. You should not need to have that fact pointed out to you.

One can argue that there is a risk that the person who does not look smart is possibly the best H/S candidate of the day and that the employer may dip out. I say rubbish, if someone feels that strongly that they should be able to dress how they like for a H/S job interview, how will they react when presented with PPE that clashes with their combovers or eyes. And what example will they set for others when employed by the company/firm in a health and safety role?

Posted By Larry
Its the hairy chest and legs that frightens the local ladies.

Posted By Gerry Marr
Hello All,

I thank you for all your comments.

Question: Is there not a module in the NEBOSH Diploma that deals with presentation and the psychology of presentation?

A await with bated breath!!!.

Gerry Marr

Posted By peter gotch
James and others - yes, it is a two way process, but those looking for work are in the weaker negotiating position. If you step up your application a gear, you will inevitably improve your chance of success, however well employers and recruitment consultants perform their side of the bargain.

This means e.g. spell checking your CV and your postings on this forum. If your English isn't as perfect as the stickler reader would like, you can also get your communications proof read by others. As the reader, it's unlikely that I will know you've done this!!

Regards, Peter

Posted By Sen Sar

If you get your CV proof read and all the spelling and grammar are correct, surely this is not a true representation of you and your abilities!

If you have gone to these lengths how can you keep this up!?

Many moons ago when studying, in the days when my assignments had to be hand written, I had a tutor that said “I prefer to see a scruffy written piece with content rather than a neatly written piece with no content". This has stuck with me for my 50++ years.

The quote from Mr Marr’s original posting. “I held interviews for a number of positions last week and a Lady came in as if she was just back from a drug induced weekend at Stonehenge, granted she was a lovely person whom no doubt was capable of fulfilling the position comfortably but I thought that if a Client walked in to a Consultancy Company and seen someone from the TVs Time Time they would not be too impressed.”

I feel this is an appalling judgement made with no basis, made purely on the fact that he did not like her dress sense.

For some of you who shout about spelling & grammar maybe you should check some of your own postings and not rely so heavily on Microsoft.

From,as stated before, an employer who would still take ability over appearance and who may not be as grammatically correct as required by all.

Both Employers & Employees need to step it up, with honesty.

Have a good weekend all.

Sar

Posted By peter gotch 1
Gus

Exactly, if the CV is full of typos probably no interview.

Sar

Agreed, you may not keep it up, but this depends on the ability of the interviewer(s) to see whether what you APPEAR to be capable of doing in written communications stands up in practice.

But at least the pristine CV enhances your chance of getting to interview when your other qualities may outweigh any weaknesses in your writing. Depends somewhat on the role - taking into account that 70% of the English language is redundant - if you can get your message across e.g. in an internal role, less important to get the apostrophes in the right place than when a critical "Blue Chip" client gets your audit report with typos, PARTICULARLY, if this give them the opportunity to question the importance of the underlying findings and recommendations (and possibly start arguing about your fees!!).

P

Posted By gavin
Ahhhh..........such nostalgia:

"The Boys from The Blackstuff"

Thanks to Paul U and Phil Rose for reminding me of that classic series

I have been unemployed now for three months but I think things are slowly changing for the better. No phone calls from agencies, very little replies from applications and no job interviews. Then two weeks ago I had four phone calls from agencies offering to put me forward for positions (still waiting to hear back from these) and two dates for actual interviews. So on the morning of my first interview I got up nice and early (6:30) had a shower and shave, put my freshly ironed shirt / tie on, got my suit out of its dry cleaning bag and put that on, put on my clean polished shoes and at 7:30 hit the road for my interview, a three hour drive away. I got there with an hour to spare so I sat in my car and re-read all the information I had managed to download regarding the company from the internet. Twenty minutes prior to the time of the interview I headed for the reception. They were running ten minutes late, not a problem it gave me more time to grill the secretary on the company. When the interviewer came out to get me he introduced himself and told me he was the operations director, so not the tea boy then. He was dressed for the occasion in his best pair of faded jeans, a comfy looking short sleeve shirt and a pair of trainers. He ushered me into the interview room and introduced me to the other interviewer who was dressed in a similar fashion and the interview began. It lasted forty minutes and ended with the immortal words “thanks for coming, we’ll let you know”. I walked away thinking “was that it?” All that time and effort to look the part and get to know the company, only to be interviewed by two lads dressed as if they were about to go down the pub for dinner. Found out from the secretary on the way out that the two lads who interviewed me were the owner’s sons.
Had a very similar experience yesterday but this time the interviewers were the owner and the works manager. Again both dressed in jeans and this time T-shirts, which is great to work in but they could have made an effort for the interview. Still at least the travelling distance was only an hour each way this time.

The whole atmosphere of the interviews was one of unprofessionalism and to my mind smacked of why should we bother there’s loads of people out there who want this job.

I know it’s a long post, but it just goes to show it’s not just perspective employees who are letting themselves down but also some employers.

Just to let you know if I am offered the first position I’ll take it but if I’m offered the second I’m not going to bother.

Murray

Sorry perspective should be "Prospective"