Posted By Nigel
With respect to the fire signage issue, have you undertaken a Fire Risk Assessment ? If you have this should indicate whether you have sufficient signage or not. This assessment should overrule the opinion of the enforcer, it is your building and your risks which "you" need to manage. I hope this answers part of your question.

Posted By Paul Craythorne
Laurie,

Maybe your bosses are interpreting the Enforcing Officers comment to suit themselves or maybe the Enforcing Officer is not suitably qualified to give comment. Please bear in mind that they are only generalists like many of ourselves and they also have to rely on specialists in certain fields.

Tell your employer that the legislative requirements are only minimum standards and that you are trying to elevate your company's H&S standards to a best practice level.

Regards,

Paul

Posted By shaun mckeever
The enforcing officer should not offer advice without backing it up in writing. I would go back to the enforcing officer and ask for him/her to confirm their comments in writing with their reasons behind their decision. My feeling is that once the enforcing officer becomes accountable they will think twice before giving advice and will make sure of their facts.

Posted By Ken Taylor
Having worked in a Health & Safety unit of an Environmental Health Department, I have some sympathy with Andy's response. However, I must also say that, over the years, I have, on quite a few occasions, felt rather frustrated and annoyed by 'generous' enforcing officers and the like (EHOs, Fire Officers, Building Control Officers, Planners - and even Health & Safety Advisers!) telling employers that there is no need to implement certain measures. This 'advice' is, almost invariably, not in writing. My response in recent years, based upon experience, has been to always put my advice in writing to the employer and, where possible, write to the 'generous adviser' to confirm the advice that they have given. The response can be quite interesting and even welcome!

Posted By Andy Lucas
Laurie,

It seems to me that your primary issue is that you are not receiving the support from your own management. This really must be addressed if you are to have any impact on safety management.

With regard to your comments concerning local enforcement agencies I would like to raise the following.

Enforcement officers are accountable and so if you are unhappy with the service you have received you will find that as local authority officers, we are probably more accountable than the HSE and you can raise your concerns with the authority directly.

Yes there are bad apples, but from both sides of the enforcement fence and unfortunately you have to expect that.

To say that 'most locally based enforcement officers, whether they be EHOs, fire, building etc. are nit picking petty little tyrants' is rather unfair. This forum is for all professionals involved in health and safety and I do not think that the quality of this forum is maintained by making such sweeping comments.

Surely it is preferable to keep things in perspective and maintain a degree of professionalism from which ever side of the fence you are on.

Andy

Posted By Ralph
I read with interest Andy Lucas' concern and defensive response about Laurie's posting. The problem is real enough. Unfortunately it is easier to critisise the messenger rather than face up to the problem. The simple fact is that there is widespread ignorance of the role of the employed health and safety officer. I am referring here to people employed in accordance with regulation 7 of the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999. It is bad enough that this ignorance exists amongst managers. It is, however, particularly galling that some health and safety professionals, both consultants and those in enforcement, also show a lamentable lack of understanding of the role of the health and safety officer or adviser.

I have never had anything other than support from HSE inspectors but I have found my position undermined by consultants including from a well known national body prominent in the field of health and safety. I do also know just what Laurie means about problems experienced in dealing with local enforcers, fire officers, building inspectors and the like.

The answer isn't to express concern that someone has drawn attention to the problem but rather to make an effort to do something about it. Reg. 7 of MHSWR applies to all employers (subject to paras 6 and 7 of reg 7). I would hope that consultants and enforcers alike would think next time they visit an employer's premises and consider if they should be asking to speak with the employed H&S competent person. That alone will help to make managers think. After all why should managers have any regard for the employed H&S officer if their fellow H&S professionals, consultants or enforcers, do not.

Andy, you may well work with a team of highly competent H&S professionals - lucky you - many employed H&S officers work without the support of like minded colleagues and in difficult circumstances. I can certainly sympathise with Laurie's position having worked as an H&S officer in the education sector. I know just what a difficult job it can be.

Best of luck Laurie,
Ralph