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Posted By Roy Male
The recent thread on responsibility has reminded me of a recent situation when a close friend of mine (lets call him Joe), who is a health and safety advisor, was disciplined with a written warning for not stopping a machine when an accident occurred and failing to ensure that corrective action had taken place to make it safe. At the time of the accident, the Engineering Manager had told Joe that it would be made safe immediately. However two days later, Joe on his weekly plant and equipment inspection, observed that the machine had not been made safe and it was still in production. He was told that the work was scheduled for the weekend.
On the following Monday the work had again not been done because of production requirements. Joe wrote an urgent memo to his General Manager stating that production requirements were taking precedence over health and safety and he asked for addition resources to be made available to maintenance to address the problem, otherwise the employees were still at risk. (On Joe’s checklist there were 21 out of 31 identified hazards that had still not been actioned within the agreed timescale).
Unfortunately, seven weeks later an identical accident occurred on the machine, which could have been a fatality. HSE inspectors investigated the accident.
During this seven weeks Joe had been off on holiday for two weeks and on the sick for two weeks. When he was in work during the seven weeks he was still trying to get the machine made safe but maintenance had production priorities.
The accident happened after Joe returned to work from sick leave. Joe carried out the internal accident investigation and stated in his report, amongst a number of other things of lax supervision, poor health and safety management, and generally, production taken precedence over health and safety concerns.
Two weeks later, Joe was called in by the General Manager and he was told that he was formally being disciplined because as he was the health and safety advisor he should have stopped the machine when the first accident happened. Joe had not been given any time to prepare to refute the allegation. However, he did explain that he had been promised that the machine would be made safe on a number of occasions by the Engineering Manager and that he had also written to him (General Manager) for additional resources for maintenance. Joe also stated that he was the health and safety advisor and did not manage health and safety.
Despite this Joe was told he should have stopped the machine immediately and he was formally advised that he was being issued with a written warning and that his performance must improve. Failure to do so may lead to dismissal. Joe received his notice next day and was only given two days to appeal. Joe tried to obtain legal advice, but time was against him. He reluctantly decided not to appeal because at the age of 55 he was afraid that if had rocked the boat he would lose his job.
Although the HSE have not issued their report, no other member of staff has been disciplined.
Please discuss.
Roy
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Posted By Ashley Williams
Well from memory the appeal period was too short for a start, im not at work for the next week and a bit but im sure the ACAS code of practice states 5 working days for an appeal. Call Bob Woods on 01535 664462 he would be able to confirm this.
Was / Is your friend in a union? I know they can be a pain but they do have their uses especialy when working in a role like ours where your dammed if you do stop a machine and doubly dammed if you dont/cant.
As for the accident investication did he keep all his memo's? I think its important that paper work is kept in case something like this happens. Its no use asking somone to fix something verbaly. How do you prove you told them???
If all the paperwork has been kept it would be worth taking copies home, in case they wish to carry on down the scape goat avenue. I remember a facilities management firm who lost my old companies accident book, after an incecticide incident along with the COSHH records and Work records. Oops so files can go missing or be deleted.
All in all it sounds like the typical who do we blame for this scenario instead of looking at how the blame should be fairly distributed. ie, Maintenance Manager, Production Manager, General Manager.
hope this helps
Ashley
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Posted By Jessica Nicholls
I am sorry to hear about how Joe was treated.
I would imagine most Safety Professionals have at some point in their careers found themselves being used as a scape goat. I have found myself in a similar, although not as serious, situation.
I cannot stress the importance of keeping copies of memos - e-mail is also a marvellous thing for confirming / summarising conversations ("just to confirm that you have agreed to fix the fault, by ...").
In addition to this I use my diary as a log book - where I note down essential information, such as who told me, when, what details, who I spoke to, etc, to give you a personal record of happened.
Another useful tactic when people prioritise production over safety is to send a memo out to them explaining the importance of issue, and also copy it to one or two other key personnel, for example the General Manager - because by making them aware of the situation you effectively make them accountable.
I am afraid this advice will not hep Joe now - but it may be able to prevent anything similar happening in the future.
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Posted By Maggie Atterbury
Obviously, much depends on Joe's Job Description. Does he have the authority to stop production? Does he "manage" safety? Joe cannot be held responsible if he is not in a position to do these things, and when he clearly brought the matter to the attention of the appropriate people. Jessica and Ashley are right. Firstly, had he been a mamber of a Trade Union, they would have picked it up from the point where he was called to a disciplinary hearing and ensured that there was sufficient time for preparation etc. They would also have ensured tha the had representation and legal advice if required. Secondly, it is vital to put every thing in writing, including confirming all verbal communication and to keep copies of everything.
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Posted By David Brede
I think 'Joe' has got a lot of excellent advice from Ashley, Jessica and Maggie.
The job description issue is most important as if 'Joe' has a line management responsibility he should have used it to stop production. If not then custom and practice usually suggests that H&S Advisers are just that, advisers and have no power to stop anything.
For the future 'Joe' has got to think through how he sees his career. Clearly his employers HR advice is not the best so he has got to consider how they will respond to a robust defence of his position. Production it appears is all that counts. If he is prepared to make a stand then there is some chance that his employment may be short lived so would working for someone else be bad news?
If in the words of the song 'there may be trouble ahead' he should sign up to a trade union irrespective whether the firm in unionised or not so if the worst comes to the worst he can take full advantage of the somewhat debateable approaches the firm has to HR & Safety Management and wring out of them a good settlement at the Industrial Tribunal.
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Posted By Chris Pollington
An interesting one, firstly I agree with the previous responses and the need to document all dialogues, but why did Joe not stop the machine?, I have had a number of instances where a piece of equipment has become unsafe and have stopped it. Yes it does cause a huge problem, but it then gets fixed very quickly and the senior people whilst steaming inside have no option but to re-enforce the decision.
Having said that, the method used is crucial and stopping the equipment is the last thing I want to do, my approach is to speak with the manager and attempt to identify any possible solution that does not require stopping the equipment, but I make it clear that it cannot carry on being used if unsafe, what actually happens is the manager then stops the equipment.
If I think there is a risk of imediate serious danger I will stop the process and then speak immediatly with the manager.
Of course I'm one of the lucky ones who have some good sensible managers who take their responsibilities seriously.
Chris.
ps I unfortunatly will not see this thread to it's conclusion as I'm heading off for a couple of weeks in the sun, so good luck !
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Posted By Robert Woods
Joe should legaly have had five days to appeal against the diciplinery action.
There has been some excellent advice from Ashley, Jessica and Chris, although Chris did have the grace to say that he had sensible managers who listened and acknowledged that they are not all like that.
One piece of advice that stood out is put everything in writing.
Trades Union reps are encouraged to put everything in writing and have report pads that ensure that everything is in triplicate.
My experiance from working in high production manufacturing [food sector mainly] is that production must carry on at all costs. Many times I have spent all day and night waiting for a machine to finaly breakdown before I was allowed to carry out maintainance/repairs.
The motto of most of these large companies is "production always comes first".
Then when the muck hits the fan and things take twice as long to mend they find a scapegoat who better than a guy with little back up who is of an age where he daren't rock the boat.
Join a union and find out your rights. Protect yourself so you can protect others.
Robert Woods
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Posted By Robert Woods
Sorry for omiting Maggie her advice was also very helpful in my humble oppinion.
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Posted By Matthew O'Farrell
The previous threads reflect the facts. Joe was an adviser. His memo to the General Manager placed the responsibility, quite rightly, squarely with that postholder. Seven weeks delay therefore places the General Manager clearly ‘in the frame’. This was the real ‘crime’. His disciplinary action against Joe was an obvious attempt to shift blame. The restricted appeal period, ensured the matter did not rise in the above the General Manager. Here again, questions arise. Was Joe given notice of the disciplinary hearing? Was he given the opportunity of representation or to have a witness of his choosing present at the interview? Was the written warning issued as a consequence of the hearing or as a formality?
Joe should, surely, still make a positive move to protect his own position. At this point, he has a serious blemish on his employment record, related to a sensitive issue, i.e. health and safety. Whether he survives in his current position or seeks alternative employment, this may be reflected in any future reference sought from his present employer. Once out of the way, records can be mislaid, as previously remarked.
The ceiling for his disciplinary action appears to have been with the General Manager, who has a vested interest. Why not consider an appeal, albeit ‘out of time’, to the Managing Director, whose ultimate corporate responsibility for health and safety has been threatened by the omissions of the General Manager, who appears lax, not only on health and safety matters but also, possibly, on Employment law. The Managing may be similarly motivated to protect his own interest against this threat.
Joe may consider this too risky and prefer to “let sleeping dogs lie” but I fear in this case, the dogs may be just “lying in wait”. I would seriously consider that possibility. It is in cases like this that the “Joe’s” among us, need support. Unions/IOSH/HSE/All! The thread may be historical or hypothetical but it is relevant. Good Luck, Joe.
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Posted By Roy Male
Hi!
I was out with Joe last night with our wives, and he is grateful for the comments and queries received to this thread.
Here are the answers and confirmation to the points raised.
In his job description he is only a health and safety advisor with no line management responsibility for health and safety. The responsibility for health and safety lies with the General Manager, and this responsibility is delegated down the company via his line managers e.g., Manufacturing Manager, Production Control Manager, Team and Cell Leaders. This is clearly stated in the organisation section of the company’s Health and Safety Policy and in the new employee Induction Training Pack. Although in the two years he has been with the company Joe has stopped power press operations and paint dipping because of inadequate guarding, and no emergency stop function respectively.
Joe was given NO notification that he was about to have a preliminary hearing for disciplinary reasons when he was told to see the General Manager. The shock of being told that the meeting was the start of a disciplinary hearing hit him like a punch to the stomach. Although he was told he could have a friend or colleague in attendance he waivered this right. (Joe has admitted that in hindsight this was a mistake. He could have used the time to prepare to refute the allegation more vigorously).
At this preliminary hearing he was told verbally of the accusation. There was no written confirmation of the accusation submitted to him.
Joe had checked with the local ACAS branch and he was advised that under their Code of Practice on Disciplinary and Grievance Procedures, five working days for lodging an appeal is usually appropriate but two days is this case as given by his company was acceptable because it is ACAS’s suggested minimum period.
If Joe had had the time to make a robust defence of the allegation, the Operations Director, who is a good friend of the General Manager, would have heard the appeal. They had served their apprenticeships together in the company. Would Joe really have had a fair hearing?
Joe was not a member of a trade union be he has applied to join the GMB Union just in case of future problems.
He has had the forethought to keep copies all the relevant documentation involved in the situation. Namely the memo he sent to his General Manager, the plant and equipment checklists for several weeks, which goes to all line managers asking for the machine to be repaired urgently.
When the first accident happened on the machine Joe was told by the Engineering Manager that corrective action to make the machine safe would be done immediately. It transpired that the materials for the new physical guarding, stated by Joe, would not be delivered until next day so the machine was put back into production without his knowledge. It was until two days after the accident that Joe found out that the machine had not been made safe with the improved guarding.
Joe is aware that the situation has made his position untenable. He has adopted a positive approach and that he will not be beaten and will maintain his professional integrity within the company as long as he is with them. He has submitted his CV to
a number of recruitment agencies in the hope of obtaining a new position.
Roy
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Posted By Angelo Pinheiro
As a safety professional, Joe did his job in informing, i.e. alerting his management - both, line and staff, about the hazards. It should have been management's responsibility to follow-up Joe's inspection and ensure that the machine was taken out of service until guards were installed. It is not clear if Joe had the authority to stop the machine in question, but such responsibilities are seldom, if ever, given to company HSE personnel. They are expected to monitor and advise line, i.e. production personnel of hazards and trends. I am curious what action management took against the errant production personnel, both before and after the incident? It appears that taking shortcuts is/was encouraged at this plant.
In this instance, management's leadership and commitment to HSE appears to be both, non-existent and hypocritical. Joe has the option to challenge his disciplinary letter internally, raise the issue with the Dept. of labour (UK HSE Executive?) and have this revoked, or look for another job.
Angelo Pinheiro
Canada
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