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Posted By Ian Mycroft
I have a problem with CDM that I would like to have cleared up, if anyone can help. My organisation occasionally demolishes small structures, the work is completed within a day and the HSE are not notified. However, I have recently been told by several people, who have acted as planning supervisors and/or CDM trainers, that any demolition work requires notification. My understanding of CDM and demolition is that whilst the regulations apply to all demolition work, notification is only required if the construction phase (of which the demolition may be a part) is to be longer than 30 days or involve more than 500 person days (HSG 224 pages 5, 9 and 10). Is my interpretation of HSG 224 wrong and if so does it need to be re-written because it seems to be very clear to me?
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Posted By Bill Fisher
Ian
Demolition is notifiable. Why not go and have a chat with your local Inspector - you may be able to develop a system for the future.
Regards
Bill
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Posted By peter gotch
Sorry Bill but the view that all demolition is a widespread misapprehension.
Notifiability is covered by Reg 7 and is based on time not risk.
The new CDM ACOP attempts to make this issue clearer. See the flow chart on page 5.
Spot on Ian!
Regards, Peter
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Posted By Jim Sweetman
Ian,
You appear to be receiving advice from the plethora of people who are not clear on CDM themselves.
When CDM first hit the streets, I was working for a Local Authority. We were carrying out a considerable amount of demolition work, including demolishing garages (the municipal rental type). HSE viewpoint was that they didn't want to know as the work was minor and repetitive.
I would advise approaching the local HSE as to what they consider to be classed as demolition. Some criteria include:
1) Are specialist contractors needed?
2) Is there a signifcant risk identified?
3) Does the work impact on the structural integrity of the structure?
4) Is a design element required?
To consider it broadly, knocking down a garden wall is demolition, but it is unlikely that CDM procedures would be invoked for so minor a job.
Regarding notification, I would advise looking at Figure 1 on page 5 of the recent CDM ACOP. I quote 'Will demolition or dismantling be involved? - All of the regulations apply to the work, but notification only required if regulation 7 threshhold exceeded.'
In short, CDM applies to all demolition and Dismantling (as defined), but there is no need to notify unless the work is expected to take longer than 30 working days or 500 man working days.
You can breathe a little now.
Regards
Jim Sweetman
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Posted By Jay Joshi
I feel that there is a confusion here between the requirements of CDM & Notification to HSE and the requirements in the Building Act 1984, Section 80 to notify the local authority of the intended demolition.The former primarily deals with Health & Safety and the latter with building control.
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Posted By Allan St.John Holt
I agree with Bill and Jim; people often get things mixed up but as they say the new ACoP gives a better explanation. One thought of interest - if you check the dangerous occurrence definitions in RIDDOR, you'll find a mention of 5 tonnes of material and I have found the HSE are happy to use this as a rough rule of thumb on quantity, risk, whatever as to what they would be interested in hearing about.
Allan
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Posted By Zyggy Turek
Ian,
I agree with the latter comments that the CDM Regs.do apply to demolition work, but not notifiable unless they exceed the 30 days/500 person days criteria.
To back this up I have a letter from a Principal Construction HSE Inspector which spells this out.
If you e-mail me your Fax No., I will send you a copy.
Zyggy.
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Posted By Bill Fisher
Peter,
Of course you are quite correct. Something done in a hurry with an a wish to emphasise the benefits in talking to HSE.
Perhaps Mr Sweatman could give us a teach-in!
Best regards
Bill
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