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Posted By Bryn Maidment I suspect that the answer to this question will be the same as that for Mark's question on 'Liquid Soap' below.
Our liquid Nitrogen suppliers have asked us if we have a contract for checking storage areas for the flasks they bring in. The answer was 'no' and they are now insisting we take up their contract for this service or they won't deliver the stuff.
Before I call their bluff I have closely read the MSDS for the substance and there is no mention of a specific check thats required. Apart from the usual measures taken as identified by the COSHH assessment regarding adequate low level ventilation does anyone know about this requirement or is this another company jumping on a bandwagon?
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Posted By John Webster Bryn,
I am not aware of anything either. The flask should be inspected periodically, but provided that it is kept in an area with adequate low level ventilation (check for nearby ducts and sumps), away from direct sunlight and heat sources etc. then all should be well. So I too would like to hear from anyone who knows differently.
Your supplier could do worse than adopt the excellent approach used by BP for fuel deliveries - every delivery driver is trained to assess the customer's installation and can issue "improvement notices" on the customer. This has to be far more responsible than threatening to withdraw supplies from anyone who has not paid them for a safety check.
I have the opposite concern - I would like to get our liquid nitrogen supplier to improve HIS safety standards when delivering! (small, barely economic delivery with no choice of supplier).
John
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Posted By John Donaldson Bryn
I have not heard of this coming up in the HE Sector but we are required by our supplier to provide evidence that our own dewers are inspected.
I do wonder if this is a very late reaction by a supplier to the fatality in Scotland during 1999 which occurred in a Liquid Nitrogen storage area.
Below is one of the HSE releases put out at the time.
PRESS RELEASE E229:99
The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) today issued a reminder to laboratory operators of the safety measures that should be employed during the use of liquid nitrogen.
The warning is issued following the recent death of a laboratory technician at the Medical Research Council premises at the Western General Hospital in Edinburgh after apparently suffering oxygen deprivation while filling flasks with liquid nitrogen.
John Blackburn, Principal Inspector at HSE's Edinburgh - based Services Group, said: "Particular emphasis should be concentrated on the following topics whenever a laboratory operator is using liquid nitrogen:
* provision of adequate extract ventilation, including make-up air;
* equipment and systems of work should be designed, operated and maintained to reduce the risk of an accidental spillage and in the event of a spillage, the quantity of nitrogen that might be spilt; * suitable warning systems should be provided and maintained to ensure that should a potentially dangerous oxygen deficiency be developing then sufficient warning is provided; * appropriate emergency procedures should be devised and suitable training provided to all those who might have a part to play in any emergency; and * adequate instruction, training and supervision should be provided for the correct use of equipment used to transport and transfer liquid nitrogen within laboratories."
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Posted By Diane Warne Bryn, I'm as certain as I can be that there is no requirement for you to have a contract for checking these storage areas. I don't believe the supplier has any statutory right to demand this from you but I guess they can make it a condition of supply if they wish. I can thoroughly recommend the British Compressed Gases Association book "The safe use of liquid nitrogen dewars up to 50 litres" available from them on te. 023 8064 1488 or from their web site at www.bcga.co.uk. The BOC booklets "Care with cryogenics" and Controlling the risks of inert gases" are good too, and available free - call 0800 111 333. BOC are our suppliers and they have never tried to coerce us into taking up any such contract. I suspect that if they did, our lab managers would politely tell them to go forth - and would simply switch to another supplier.
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This thread from March 2002 was also on back page 1421 of this forum along with the thread "Use of Mobile Phones/Hands Free Kit in transit" which moved to page 1 when I responded to it a short while ago.
In her response above Diane Warne includes a link to the British Compressed Gases Association (BCGA) website. This is still active and includes access to the latest (2012) version of the BCGA Technical Information Sheet (TIS27) regarding liquid nitrogen dewars. This may well be of interest/use in relation to the current trend in some/many licensed premises for adding liquid nitrogen to cocktail drinks to make them visually sensational !
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Graham Bullough wrote:This thread from March 2002 was also on back page 1421 of this forum along with the thread "Use of Mobile Phones/Hands Free Kit in transit" which moved to page 1 when I responded to it a short while ago.
In her response above Diane Warne includes a link to the British Compressed Gases Association (BCGA) website. This is still active and includes access to the latest (2012) version of the BCGA Technical Information Sheet (TIS27) regarding liquid nitrogen dewars. This may well be of interest/use in relation to the current trend in some/many licensed premises for adding liquid nitrogen to cocktail drinks to make them visually sensational ! Not stalking you Graham, honest. BCGA are a great group, I contacted them when I found a stash of very old very corroded cylinders at a facility I was inspecting and could not identify the possible contents. They were very helpful and it turned out the cylinders were lpg. They also had a counter view to the HSE about acetylene cylinders in fires. The BCGA view is supported by the London Fire & Rescue Service that the 24 hr cooling period with 200m exclusion zone is not required when the fire is under control and certain conditions are met. Their guide L6 is available here http://www.bcga.co.uk/preview/cif.phpAs Ian Dury said "There ain't half been some clever...."
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