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Posted By Peter Rees
We have a one-off task which is looking increasingly likely that entrance into a confined space is required.
The area in question is via a drain cover to access sewers/drains. We need to do this to carry out some tests on effluent levels over a 7 day period of time. The access area is about 3m deep and about 1m diameter.
Before entry I know that I have the following to complete:-
1. Find an alternative method of sampling, if possible!
2. Determine Oxygen level within area;
3. Train out relevant SSOW to all personnel/supervisor/First Aiders/emergency personnel.
4. Ensure correct PPE is worn.
The advice that I wish to obtain, though, is regarding the possible use of breathing apparatus. We have no units on site and no trained or experienced personnel on site and so have two options:-
1. Outsource this problem to a contractor/consultant - which would be a costly method, but may be cost-effective in the long run, or
2. Hire some BA for the 7 day period. If I do this what training is required for the operators, what tests are applicable for the actual BA (I know that they come under the Pressure Systems Regs 2000). Can anyone recommend a supplier that may be able to give me this type of service?
Thanks for any comments
Pete
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Posted By Merv Newman
Peter
DON'T DO IT !
Familiarity with BA needs training and supervised hands-on experience. And you are talking about a potentially lethal situation. Please do not put partially trained personnel down the drain.
Talk to your fire brigade or local water authority - they may be able to advise or even need a re-training exercise themselves.
Otherwise hire in qualified, experienced experts.
Merv Newman
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Posted By Richard Dougherty
Hi Peter,
For the type of job you have described you would be advised to hire in a trolley unit such as the Dreager Airpack used in conjunction with a 15 minute escape set. If you contact Draeger in Blyth Northumberland they should be able to advise of a local distibutor. However the use of this equipment requires specialised training the cost of which for your staff could make contracting out the job to be the more cost effective option. The use of BA is covered by Home Office Guideline 1/97, your local fire officer will be able to advise on that and is also treated to its own section in RIDDOR.
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Peter
You are not clear whether a traverse along the drains is required and what diameter the drains are. As a previous respondent has said don't do it - get the expert but even then you have the responsibility for the decision that entry is a must. Also why can you not check the contents at the input or output points?? Many of the robot camera vehicles have a sampling capability so why not use one of these?
I would really need to understand the imperative to physically check effluent levels as you phrase it.
Bob
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Posted By Laurie
Just to confirm what others have said - use of SCBA requires training and experience. I was once in a job where this was a requirement. Initial training was for a full day (that was just use of the BA - carrying out tasks while wearing it required further training) and refresher/continuation training took half a day every three months.
At least once a year this training included practical evacuation of an unconscious person.
Believe me, this is a specialist area!
Laurie
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Posted By Robert Woods
I used to carry out the task you are talking about. Sewers can not only be bereft of oxygen but there is also risks from hydrogen sulphide and explosive gasses.
Give the scan group a call. There based in Ilkley in West Yorks but get about all over the country. You'll find there web site if you put out a search.
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Posted By Stuart Nagle
Peter.
The taking of effluent levels in sewers and other locations over a period of time is a well known and practiced type of work.
Rule number 1 in confined spaces working is if there is a reasonably practicable alternative method that prevents entry, then this MUST be employed (See confined spaces regs).
I would advise that there are various methods of checking levels (and rates of flow) within drainage systems that do not require entry at each stage, if at all.
I would suggest that you contact a competent contractor (your local water authority may be able to advise you here) to have the work carried out to install such a device to do this work, or adopt a method that requires no entry into the space. You do not state exactly how accurate the measurements have to be?
Regardless of the competency of your staff in dealing with flow rate measurement, unless they are properly training and competent to undertake confined space entry, including the use of either full or escape breathing apparatus, you should not undertake entry and put your staff at risk.
Seek competent assistance and look for alternative means of completeing the work. Cutting back on what are considered to be reasonably practicable costs in such tasks is likely to be the first domino that falls in leading to more serious consequences.
I hope this helps...
Stuart Nagle
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Posted By Karen Rogers
Pete,
To echo what the others have said serious look at using a contactot to carry out this work. In past employment we had personnel who would carry out frequent confined space entries.
The equipment alone required is expensive to buy/ hire e.g Gas monitors (oxygen alone is not enough), Tripods, lifelines etc.
Then there is the initial and refresher training in both confined space entry and resuce. The setting up of initial medicals to ensure that the employees are medically fit to carry out this type of work and to wear BA.
As you are aware this is a high risk operation. When things go wrong they can be fatal. To put it in perspective I was once told by a fire officer that if the fire brigade are called to a confined space rescue they are usually only going to recover a body.
If you do however use a contractor - Check there training records, calibration certificates for their equipment and ensure that they give you a method statement. There are some companies that do not have these but are quite happy to carry out this type of work.
Sorry if I am teaching you stuff that you already know, but I feel quite passionate about this subject (not that you can tell)
Karen
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