Posted By Peter Vintner Hi, Does anyone have any information / history of accidents associated with 'fixed pennant' ropes on cranes. In addition any information on maintenance and inspection. (I realise that there is the 12 month thorough examination) The problem is that in order to fully inspct the 'rope' it has to be taken down and unwrapped to see the condition, this is a very expensive option. The offshore industry apparently change their's every 4 years.... any advice Peter

Posted By Peter Vintner Thank you Robert for your swift reply. As you can imagine our competent person approached both the insurers,manufacturers and the HSE without committment or result which is why I, as a last resort, approached this site with it's knowledgeable patronage. I found the remark about our competent person not being competent for not being able to advice on this very precise issue as a tad condescending, not to mention offensive and at best unhelpful. If you have any other words of wisdom that may be of assistence I would still appreciate it Peter

Posted By Paul Crump Peter. You could try and get the information you require from The Lifting Equipment Engineers Association.They have a website at: www.leea.co.uk/ hope this is of some use to you.

Posted By Eddie Campbell Peter As you rightly point out taking down pendant ropes and unlaying them for inspection would be a very expensive exercise. I have personal experience with cranes and the inspection of their associated running and fixed wires. Unfortunately I do not have any leads on where you might get any general history of accidents associated with pendants. I do however have some evidence of some catastrophic failures with running rope, loadlines and cable laid sling which may of interest to you. If you want any further information on this type of thing then drop me a line. As to inspection of pendants I can advise that most crane manufacturers will specify that the operator should be inspecting these on a weekly basis as a minimum. In real life when you are running crane fleets that are working 24/7 and with boom lengths in excess of 100 metres this may not always be possible for a variety of reasons which I am sure that you are well aware off. Pendants are generally only visually inspected on the outside for mechanical defects and the effects of weathering. Particular areas to inspect are where the wire rope enters the pendant sockets where moisture can become trapped when the crane boom is in the operating position. The wire should also be inspected at the point of entry in to the socket for any slippage of the termination. Any obvious signs would point to possible overloading of the pendant or even poor manufacturing techniques and would immediately condemn the pendant for use. There has been at least one case of a pendant socket slippage which caused a crane failure offshore that I am aware off. The failure was associated with a resin type application that caused an industry rethink about the onsite application of the termination. Somewhere I have a report on this but where it is escapes me right now. Pendant wires are also susceptible to splintering at the entry point and the rule of thumb here is that one broken wire condemns the pendant. Checks should also be made at any bearing points where the wire makes contact with sheaves for any wear or splintering. There are some companies who specialise in the Non Destructive Testing of wire ropes and pendants. Check out http://www.ndttech.com for more details on this method. The big advantage being that in most cases the inspection can be done in situ with out the need for a strip down. You will find details on a British company who specialise in this type of inspection at http://www.canoffshore.ltd.uk/inspection.htm There has been some research done on wire rope sockets that may be helpful. See http://www.rdg.ac.uk/eng...material/ropes/home.html for more information. Bridon have always been a really useful source of publications and practical advice to me for a number of years and you should be able to find an office near to you at http://www.bridon.com There is a CD-ROM available with some good information on the subject of wire rope pendants and other wire rope related data and advice that you can get at http://www.casar.de/english/kontakt/kontakt.htm Hope the above helps. Regards Eddie

Posted By Peter Vintner Rob, Thank you for the advice, however at this stage I was only after some general back ground information on which a decision was to be based (long term). What I wasn't looking for was an argumant concerning competence, regulations, what the HSE would or not do, just information. I am greatful for those people that have submitted some useful and specific advice. I thought that you my have gone on holiday for a while as you haven't answered every one elses questions on thier threads. I am sure that you have missed and have a lot of catching up to do. Regards Peter

Posted By Peter Vintner Bob, Thank you for your concern. However that is exactly what I am trying to do. If it were your company I am sure that you would explore absolutley all avenues to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion. Even individuals quoted as being competent persons will never have all the answers to all the problems at a given time at thier disposal, especially when the phrase 'in the light of current knowledge and invention is apparent. Let me state again that this thread was about gathering information in addition to all the other information we have at our disposal. You are correct that it is not my decision to make, however it is me who carries the can if it goes t--s up, so I have a vested interest to make sure that the decision made is the correct one regardless of cost, effort etc. Peter

Posted By Peter Vintner Thank you Paul for the advice. Definately will consider this as it seems to be a sensible, workable and achievable option. Peter

Posted By Peter Vintner Bob, I understand fully the requirements as stated before of competence, PUWE and LOLE Regulations. I understand absolute, practicable and reasonably practicable in duty levels. I have never doubted what you have said, in fact I agree with the factual information, however, there is nothing new in what you have said. This is again a fact finding and information gathering exercise in a very practical sense that I have chosen to share with this forum in the hope that there are some individuals who may have experience that they wish to share (without liability or obligation) with us. Again I believe that competence is being demonstrated by gathering the informtion Regards Peter

Posted By Richard I must give Bob some support here. I always tell my customers that I know something about everything, but I know everything about nothing! As has been previously declared, it is knowing your own limitations, i.e. when to call in extra help, that is the mark of the truly competent. In the original circumstances (we've moved a bit away from that haven't we!) I would not have hesitated to call in outside help, even though I am a time served mechanical engineer to trade Richard

Posted By Peter Vintner Thank you Martyn, However there is no case to rest. There is no indication that the author is not aware of the regulatory requirements. The Q. states in simple terms a request for information/accidents associated with a particlar article of lifting gear. I am sorry if the Q. was not specificly worded for the response to be of a practical nature, however I must thank all that have responded and offered advice both on this forum and to my email. This is a very interesting and informative forum. Regards Peter

Posted By Peter Vintner Bob, I will not disagree with anything you have said in fact the contrary. However, in this case no body is pushing anybody into a position to be the named 'competent person' or anything else. In an attempt to becomming informed of a particular issue or quest for knowledge, in an open forum, so that I have at least an appreciation of the issues, to allocate adequate funds and resources I have been acussed of being blind, not competent,defensive, rude etc. Perhaps I will join your institution, but not before, like my other institutions, they become chartered.

Posted By Robert K Lewis The chartered status is no guarantee of competence however. What seems to be your concern is that the competent person might get it wrong and you will end up in the target bullseye. The problem is always the wandering outside of personal expertise, I presume yours is likely to be engineering, and ending up doing someone else's job for them. I trained originally as a Chemical Engineer and I still get the itchy feeling to dive in and research answers to problems even when persons solving the particular type of problem everyday are working on it. Contacting the ILEEA is precisely at a point where I came in - contact independant competent persons for advice on any scheme offered thus it ceases to be a means of your adjudicating on the problem before a solution is offered. The solution is for others to propose and you to assess with the help of a competent 3rd party if there is a dispute. I have to admit to some caution even on my own advice at a relatively low level, but never on complex tasks or equipment. I would still encourage joining - we are not all battle hardened cynics like myself - many of us however have seen the pitfalls ensnare many people. Bob