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#1 Posted : 15 July 2002 13:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lee Ainsworth I apologise for showing my ignorance, but I won't learn if I don't ask. Now that IOSH has received the Chartered status: 1. What effect if any, will it have on the membership? 2. Also, will the membership be restructured in any way? Again sorry for the ignorance but I have seen articles discussing membership and wondered if this had any relevance. Lee
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#2 Posted : 15 July 2002 13:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Interestingly the only noticeable change will be in name (of the Institution) and designatory letters. There are other moves afoot in restructuring but this is some time off, ie 1-2 years+. I have often on these pages expressed the view that there can be sensitivities when it comes to re-structuring. I think that the change to a Chartered Institution gives authority to Council to change articles and structures without the need for reference to members but I would hope that Council does not exercise this ability. Bob
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#3 Posted : 15 July 2002 15:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Philip McAleenan In effect Bob, the position is that the change to Chartered status means that IOSH will "surrender[s]significant aspects of the control of its internal affairs to the Privy Council. Amendments to Charters can be made only with the agreement of The Queen in Council, and amendments to the body's by-laws require the approval of the Council (though not normally of Her Majesty). This effectively means a significant degree of Government regulation of the affairs of the body,..." (see www.privy-council.org.uk) regards, Philip
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#4 Posted : 16 July 2002 08:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis I think the position is that our own council, to which I was referring, can technically make changes without the need for a members vote. On the matter of the Privy Council I would defer to your knowledge. Bob
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#5 Posted : 16 July 2002 09:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Wai Ming WU Would we use any chartered title similar to CEng in future?
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#6 Posted : 16 July 2002 10:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard It also means that officers are now more likely to be publicly rewarded for "Service to Health & Safety". Now who's being cynical! Richard
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#7 Posted : 16 July 2002 10:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Individuals will not have a chartered status as the Institution itself is the chartered. Richard I know where you are coming from Bob
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#8 Posted : 16 July 2002 14:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By stephen j mills There may be an opportunity in the future to become 'Chartered Safety Practitioner', if the C.I.E.H. example is anything to go by. That Institute was granted Chartered status some time ago, and now EHO's are apparently able to apply to use the term 'Chartered Environmental Health Practitioner'. Watch this space!
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#9 Posted : 16 July 2002 14:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis I am not certain that CIEH Pract. is a formal usage and if so how it came about Bob
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#10 Posted : 16 July 2002 17:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jay Joshi Firstly, the granting of the Royal Charter as stated in the IOSH Press/News Release reinforces IOSH's position and is a further endorsement of the professionalism its members etc. I am sure membership will welcome this. As I understand it, the acheivement Chartered Status at this point in time does not mean any particular level of membership i.e individual members will get not get chartered status, but who knows that it can be a future possibility! It is a fact that CIEH has got "regulations" in place for individual members applying for chartered status--the details are on the CIEH website! http://www.cieh.org/abou...mber/charteredstatus.htm
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#11 Posted : 17 July 2002 11:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bryn Maidment Clearly a lot of hard work has gone into achieving this - congrats! Sorry to spoil the party but what will be the actual benefits of Chartered status for IOSH and members. "enhancing the status of IOSH" etc. etc. How exactly? IOSH hasn't changed has it? So can someone explain why so much effort and resources have been put into achieving this label. To me, as a relative young 'un, Chartered equates to stuffy, outdated, bureaucratic, dinosaur driven and jobs worthy. Please convince me otherwise. Have suggested before that an article in the THSP would be an idea!
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#12 Posted : 17 July 2002 17:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By George Wedgwood Surely this is an event to be applauded and proud of? Many have worked hard and sacrificed a lot of time in committees and in the management of IOSH (incidentally a democratically driven device) to achieve it, principally because the members wanted it! However, some Members seem to have missed the strategic importance of such a 'label'. It is unique in the UK and widely respected as a 'tag' of 'professionalism' - of course, if you don't think the cap fits - don't wear it! The Membership 'title' of 'Cwhatever' in H&S may eventually come along but what is important is that we use the new influence to enhance our profile in the political and management world, to raise standards and make H&S the business essential that it should be - in every business! Why do SMEs get worried about their accounts and not about H&S? Well that is changing too - even the Inland revenue have it as a priority on their self employment sites. So be enthusiastic and embrace the new title - it IS important and we are all part of it. Just let us make something of it and work together to embrace successful health and safety! Well done IOSH!
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#13 Posted : 18 July 2002 10:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bryn Maidment I have no doubt that effort etc. has been expended in achieving this 'label' and I commend that. My concern is over how this subject has been communicated to members. IOSH is a professional body and is recognised as a leading light in H & S. Influencial nationally and internationally. So how will Chartered status improve this. What hoops does IOSH have to jump through to get it? What improvements have to be made to the organisation that make it more professional than before. Having some crusty embellishment doesn't make IOSH better than before UNLESS in order to get it some very real improvements are made. Tell me what they are please. I am ripe for having my mind changed believe me, but I don't know what it's about and would welcome the opportunity to improve my knowledge. I am not alone in this. How about that article in THSP to explain it all. Not just the usual "you should be proud" chants. 'Communications' sums it up I think!
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#14 Posted : 20 July 2002 12:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By George Wedgwood Clearly Bryn, the comms exercise has been a sensitive one along the way and was necessarily so, with the framework being 'dictated' by the Privvy Council. However, most relevant information was shared as I am aware and progress, though slow, was reported as we went along bit by bit. However, you will by now have seen Rob's response, which neatly sums it all up so watch for the update that is expected. The main fact here is that your Council Members have always been aware and I am sure that's the way you would want it. When something substantial should be passed on they will support HQ in the process. After all, if you do actually want to know anything that is troubling you about IOSH, why not call a Council Member? You can get a number from HQ and I certainly will always be willing to talk to any Member. I suppose a list of Council Members and contact details might be a good thing on the Web site! Thanks for your stimulating thread. George Tel 07836 718908
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#15 Posted : 20 July 2002 13:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Philip McAleenan There are those who may think that being a chartered institute is not so wonderful. Several questions have been asked in this thread, re. what happens to democracy in IOSH, and status of members? I wonder if these words from one member of the Privy Council, Roy Hattersley, written two years ago (Guardian Dec. 14 2000), would have any bearing on how the new status may be viewed. On democracy he wrote, "At worst the privy council is neither an instrument of baronial tyranny nor the last bastion of monarchist power. It is simply pointless. The usual complaint against it (normally made by Tony Benn) is that it is the institution through which orders in council are made and the royal prerogative exercised - both potential abuses of our parliamentary system. But the blame lies with ministers. The Privy Council only provides the flummery which camouflages their autocracy". He went on with some items which showed how the democratic will of parliament and one local police authority were both threatened with the Royal Prerogative unless they "voluntarily" did what the government and Home Office wanted, and concluded "No government could have survived so gigantic an affront to parliamentary government. But the royal prerogative is still used to legitimise smaller acts of autocracy...Power lies with politicians. So does the opportunity for power's abuse... It is one of those elements in our constitution which, because they have arcane rules and archaic associations, exist to prove that real power lies in places remote from everyday life". And what does he say about status, "The privy council is part of the deferential society", and "The aura of the privy council is attached to both institutions because of two peculiarly English diseases - the belief that association with the sovereign reinforces authority and the conviction that antiquity increases respect". So what does all this mean for IOSH? That internal democracy has been surrendered in favour of ministerial autocracy and that we return to the days of doffing our caps at the bosses? Regards, Philip
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#16 Posted : 23 July 2002 12:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By russell calderwood Colleagues Congrats to all those members of the Council, Executive, Members and staff, past and present, who have contributed to IOSH being granted 'Chartered' status. This is a considerable recognition by the Uks national 'Authorities' of IOSH standing amongst the worlds leading Professional Institutions. I am proud to be a member of IOSH and a small part of what it contributes to the UK. For some years I have also been fortunate to be a Chartered Engineer through the Institution of Civil Engineers. It is a honour to be part of a wider fellowship; and through the ICE, with its 170 year history, be a small part of a profession that has immensely benefited UKs (and the worlds) infrastructure, as part of the Royal Charter. I see that a number of varied responses have been posted. It is not for me to preach, but I would expect all grades of membership to be proud of the part they have, and are, playing in taking forward IOSH values; and the recognition now gained. With this recognition IOSH, through its members enriched status, will be able to enhance its contribution to the HS&W of all. Russell Calderwood
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#17 Posted : 23 July 2002 21:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Shaun Deely Congratulations IOSH and all who contributed. As another younger member of the family I too wonder what this newly conferred honour will bring to us in a practical sense? Will it gove a bigger voice or, dare I whisper, more power to affect change directly where safety is concerned? I for one fervently hope so, and look forward to reading the next issue of SHP with more than usual anticipation.
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#18 Posted : 23 July 2002 23:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Geoff Burt Russell You wrote 'With this recognition IOSH, through its members enriched status, will be able to enhance its contribution to the HS&W of all'. Before I respond to your comments could you elaborate on this rather grand statement as I'm not sure what you mean and how you see it working in the 'real' world that most of us inhabit. Geoff
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#19 Posted : 24 July 2002 12:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bryn Maidment I'm sorry if this is starting to sound like a stuck record but I'm still not convinced that this status will enrich our lives nor bring increased benefits to the world of safety. I haven't heard a single valid argument / comment / reason why this status will make us any better at our jobs or IOSH more effective. Does anyone else share my doubts about this whole Royal association business? The majority of responses have been about praising the hard work of IOSH staff (quite rightly so). The majority of questions have related to individuals and the possibility of them using new letters after their names. It does appear to me that the whole issue is one of perceived kudos. I look forward to the SHP article and hope it answers my questions.
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