Posted By Nick House Although we also use the bottled variety of water cooler, one point that I would also like to add is that most venodrs offer a quarterly sanitisation programme. This is all well and good, but this is a very long time between sanitisations, and the bacteria build up around the taps can be pretty phenomenal. That said, I have never heard of a confirmation of anyone being taken ill as a direct result of drinking mineral water from such a cooler. I would however, be interested to hear any comments on this, as now that we are (allegedly) into peak summer, the potential of the bacteria to multiply will be vastly increased, even in air conditioned offices.

Posted By Geoff Burt I know of one case (a client) where an infection of some staff was pinpointed to the bottled water supply. They have now changed to plumbed in chillers. We put the problem down to the algae build up around the area where the bottle slots into the chiller if regular cleaning eg at least every week with a mild disinfectant such as trigene, is not carried out. And of course if you install plumbed in systems you eliminate the need for manual handling, the dangers of split or leaking bottles, storage space for the bottles, and delivery and collection of bottles. So all in all is there a choice! Geoff

Posted By Jay Joshi Nick, Any supply of water that remains stagnant has the potential for bacterial growth, including "plumbed" systems. Plumbed potable water systems connected directly to mains are safer from a hygiene point of view compared to ones having intermediate storage tanks , but are subject to the Water bylaws in the context of fittings etc. Obviously, once water bottles are opened, then the water in them can be subject to bacterial growth at optimum temperatures. If you have a regular consumption of water & a cleaning/disinfection regime, then the risk will be minimised. There is a Bottled Water Cooler Association that has a "Code of Practice". More details on their website:- http://www.bwca.org.uk

Posted By Geoff Burt Nick (Broom) Yes I know the problem - how about if you put it as a defrayed cost over say 5 years eg the continuing cost of the bottled water and cleaning regime and increased risk of infection/injury and the inconvenience etc against the initial costs? Geoff

Posted By Jim Walker My "other" role in life is as a water treatment specialist. Much purer than drinking water so no axe to grind here. Without going into a lot of boring detail the plumbed in systems are not all they seem. Suffice to say I would not drink from one. This goes for those thingys you buy in Boots etc. Good old British tap water for me thanks (ensure it is straight from the mains, not via header tank).

Posted By Jim Walker As John says, the main reason these drinking water things have become popular (other than the big “con “ that bottled water is purer) is that there are very few non-domestic buildings with a reliable potable water supply, most being from header tanks etc. Check your building and if it has a second floor (or more) it will invariably be header tank water. These are a well-known source of contamination – general muck, dead rats, pigeons etc. Hence the requirement for drinking water taps to be marked, the implication being that those not marked are not suitable. The “piped supply” drinking systems are designed assuming the water is “mains fed”, in practice, this is very rarely the case. The equipment usually has activated carbon to remove chlorine and deionisation to remove further impurities. The main failure is these cartridges are ver rarely changed at the correct intervals meaning they are effectively passing through untreated water. A worst case scenario is that the cartridges themselves act as a nutrient seedbed and add to the contaminant load. The main reason why I’m so suspicious of these machines the service intervals are time related when in truth time factors are irrelevant the only use indicator is water flow, sterilisation intervals can only be ascertained on an individual basis. The equipment I design is controlled under a rigorous maintenance schedule (bells & whistles requiring the user change cartridges) also the product water is a few thousand times purer than the water from drinks machine. Nonetheless bacterial and Algae contamination is the bane of this equipment – bang goes the theory of low nutrient levels discouraging contamination. Water straight from the mains has none of these problems. If you must have a fancy system then the piped one is OK if you have a potable water feed, otherwise it is the bottled version for preference. As John says it is all relative; The risk from manual handling and dehydration being far greater. I guess it is unlikely the water, even consommé of pigeon, would do any great harm, as the body can deal with all but heavy bacterial loads.

Posted By peter gotch Nick, I had a similar sales pitch. When I asked for a copy of the laboratory report to help me assess what risk was involved in use of bottled water coolers, was told "commercially confidential" ie only for the organisation who commissioned the research. When I asked for a synopsis of the research and its findings everything went very quiet. According to the Internet, research has been done in Boston with bacterial findings at levels above US recommended standards. However, Canadian government reckon that noone has suffered in their country as result of bottled water. But the scare stories have expanded since September 11. See www.anobottlewatercooler.com ........ IMPORTANT NOTE ! Our No Bottle Water Systems are Connected to the Public Water Supply With Our Multi-Stage Premium Commercial Water Filtration System. Are you concerned with Anthrax in your drinking water?. . . Unlike purchased water (private) that is brought into your house or business, the Public Water Supply is heavily secured against terrorists and critical areas are currently protected by the State Police, locks and alarms, and video surveillance. People are worried that a small amount of some chemical or biological agent - a few drops, for instance - could result in significant threats to the health of large numbers of people. That scenario just can't happen. It would take large amounts of contaminants to threaten the safety of a city water system. Because of increased security at water reservoirs and other facilities around the country, and people being extra vigilant as well, it would be very difficult for anyone to introduce the quantities needed to contaminate an entire system. (Note: It would take approximately fourteen (14) eighteen-wheeler trucks to begin to contaminate a reservoir like Quabbin in Massachusetts.) The answer to the question, "Are you concerned with Anthrax in your drinking water?" . . . I don't think you should be!!! . . . However, about (private) water that is purchased and brought into your home or business?? . . . Be Very Careful ! Wow! Let's not drink cans of coke either in case Saddam has injected anthrax into the factory's pipework. In fact probably need to give up eating and drinking if we want to avoid the risk of anthrax. As has already been pointed out our tap water is not always as squeaky clean as it should be whether direct through mains or via header tank. Remember Camelford? Regards, Peter

Posted By Jo Scott Smith No one has mentioned the manual handling hazards of lifting, turning over and putting a 20Kg bottle of water onto the cooler. As an office of predominantly female staff we have decided to change over to mains fed water coolers for this reason alone. JO

Posted By Ian Mycroft I am very interested by what I have read in this thread. I have been asked to look into this issue by our Internal Audit Department, who are quite rightly concerned about the high cost to the organisation of providing bottled water. I have been asked to look at all aspects and produce a report and recommendation for the way forward. Aspects such as purity of one over the other are a great concern, as are the manual handling and storage space issues. Another issue that has not been mentioned, is the environmental issue of transporting all this water around the country in great big lorries that burn up gallons and gallons of diesel fuel and pump the by products into the atmosphere for everyone to breath in free of charge. Ian

Posted By Ian Mycroft Geoff This is quite true, I have done a small consumer tast around parts of our organisation and the results did confirm that most people could not tell the difference. In fact out of 40 people only one could identify the tap water and prefered the bottled, 3 said they prefered the tap water and the rest couldn't tell the difference, especially if they they are both chilled to the same temperature. Ian

Posted By peter gotch Scottish Water say that they have advised about 140000 people living in the City Centre, West and North of Glasgow that they should not drink the mains water without boiling it as cryptosporidium has been found in Mugdock Reservoir. I am one of the 140000 (but have yet to hear directly from Scottish Water!) Arrived at work this morning to find broadcast email to all our Glasgow staff..... "After discussion, it has been decided that hot drinks will not be provided within Glasgow office until Scottish Water confirm that water standards are back to normal. Staff should not use the water to make tea or coffee." Now that we have done a proper risk assessment having regard to eg guidance on the Drinking Water Inspectorate website, we have now reinstated use of kettles and advised staff to ensure that all water used for drinks and washing crockery is boiled. In the meantime it was fortunate that we have the notorious bottled water chillers throughout the office. Otherwise I could imagine staff unrest on an unusually warm day. Within 24 hours of the media releasing information on our local water problem, our local Safeway Megastore already selling out of sparkling bottled water. Probably out of still my this evening too!! Peter

Posted By peter gotch John, Thanks for the comment. After reading the panic response we sat down and did some research and a risk assessment.... According to the Americans, strategy is to boil water for at least one minute. The Drinking Water Inspectorate in the UK suggest just bringing the water up to the boil. Their experts reckon the risk of overheating kettles (and thence fire etc etc) outweigh any potential benefit from longer boiling period. So we have issued new guidance to staff to use boiled water both for teas/coffees and for washing crockery. Got back to drinking coffee before lunchtime. By that time a lot of potentially dangerous bottled water from the chillers had been consumed! Peter