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Posted By Gill S
I am advising a sports coaching company, who wil be using 100plus coaches over the next year for provision of one day training sessions to schools/colleges. None of the coaches would foreseeably do more than 10 days for us in any year and we have a contract for them to be termed as 'independant contractors'(we're not paying their NI).
They will be expected to manually handle all sorts of sports kit, water bottles(big ones!) and goal posts for instance as part of their role and obviously they will need to be MH 'aware'. Can anyone see why we would have to pay for this training or do you think we're 'safe' to make them aware of the MH element and leave it up to them?
Thanks
Gill
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Posted By Nick Higginson
Gill,
I think this could be related to the case of R v. Associated Octel. This case related to what constitutes the employers undertaking as defined in Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 Section 3.
Please note that your case is obviously of a lower risk potential.
Contact me if you want some more info on the case.
Regards,
Nick
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Posted By Dyfed Rowlands
They are contracted to you, therefore you have a responsibility towards them under HSWA 74. Also, should one of the coaches injure themselves, the likelehood is they will claim off yourselves. You must therefore be prepared. e.g. Prior to them undertaking the work, provide them with training (induction, manual handing, gen safety etc) ensuring they understand the courses and sign a document confirming they have received it, undertake and provide risk assessments, inspect areas, produce safe systems of work etc.
Regards
Dyfed
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Firstly not paying their NI does not necessarily make them Independant Contractors especially if they are individuals, the Tax Office has rigorous defintions and rules. You sound as though you are supplying the materials for them to use must be responsible for its safe handling. Why use big bottles of water? Why must they be hand carried. How are goalpost to be handled when alone - if at all. Who is insuring the activity, is the coach insured?
They are, from what you have written, employees, albeit with a strange contract, and so must be trained to undertake the required tasks and use any equipment provided. It seems to me that there are issues of risk reduction to be tackled here.
Bob
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Posted By Gill S
Guys
Thanks for your responses - I had a horrible feeling we were up the proverbial creek with it! Trying to keep 'contractors' (if we can hope to call them that) safe whilst trying to not take over responsibility for their methods of work is a nightmare.
The company concerned is very small and whilst I can sell it to them from a H&S law point of view they may well decide that they cannot afford to carry on the business if they do so......
Thank you all for your help.
Gill
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Dear all,
If a person works under a contract of service, i.e. they work under your direction and you provide them with equipment and facilities they are generally under a contract of employment.
In this case they appear to be employed by you.
Regards Adrian
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Posted By Bob Youel
Gill.
You may think that you are not paying their NI or tax but recient inland revenue / social security court judgements have indicated otherwise where people were not proven to be donifide self employed people.
The government gets its money from the easiest target.
Additionally have you covered the insurance angles. The Vicarious liability will also apply. You need very good T&C's writing up.
It is sometimes better using agencies as the law works slightly different and can be made to work in your favour.
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Posted By Jane Blunt
Dear Gill
This sounds a bit like a nightmare. Not only the aspects of them doing MH etc. How do you select competent coaches? Some Sports have Governing Bodies that have properly regulated schemes and some do not - the trick is telling the difference, and knowing how to judge the qualifications that the coach or instructor presents with. Good coaching schemes carry professional cover for the coach to around 10 million pounds.
(My particular forte is trying to sort out a real black belt from a phony one, bearing in mind that you can buy one in a shop).
Even when you have a coach with the required level of competence, if the equipment provided is not of a recognised standard, unless the Insurers have given their explicit agreement, you may not be properly covered.
You might like to list the sports - Forum members may be able to give you contacts to the Official Governing Bodies, if any.
Jane
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