Posted By Renny Thomson We have been asked to advise a local group organising a sports event over 3-4 days for school age youths. Most issues have been addressed, but we are having problems satisfying the Fire Service's requirements for smoke detection in the proposed accomodation (secondary school classrooms). At present these classrooms, and the rooms on the ground level that will not be occupied, do not have any fire detection. Can anyone provide information on battery powered smoke detectors that can be linked to raise the alarm in adjoining areas? It is not feasable to install a hard wired system to BS5839 due to the schools being used for exams before this change to dormitory accomodation. Help!

Posted By Geoff Burt It is this type of situation which I find so frustrating in the safety world. If they were in tents in the field outside no one would mention smoke detectors yet the fire risk is so much greater. Surely a battery powered smoke detector in each room (from the local DIY shop) would be sufficient for a temporary situation such as this? Geoff

Posted By Renny Thomson Thanks everyone, the "Fire Warden" is included in our controls, but the FS are still insisting on linked alarms. Does anyone have any contacts/leads for these?

Posted By Bob Pedley Renny, There is such a thing now as a Radio Fire Alarm System. This system has all the standard components of a fire alarm and fire protection system but is wireless. This would enable you to set up a temporary system with components that "talk" to a main control panel. Contact; Electro-Detectors, Electro House, Edinburgh Way, Harlow, Essex, CM20 2TP tel: 01279 635668 Bob

Posted By Graham Bullough From time to time I am asked to advise about youth groups doing "sleepovers" or hosting visiting groups in youth centres and schools, including premises which do not normally have smoke detection. I tend to agree with Geoff Burt that surely some stand-alone battery-operated smoke detectors in suitable positions would provide a reasonable level of protection for the temporary arrangement described by Renny. As he says the fire risk would be greater if the young people involved were to be sleeping outside in tents. Another thought is that those sleeping in the school will almost certainly be safer there from fire than sleeping at home where bedrooms are usually on upper floors with only one unprotected stairway down, smoking occurs and there may be no smoke detectors, etc. By contrast, as well as having smoke detectors, the school scenario will have roving adult supervision during the night. No doubt there will also be suitable advice to all concerned about fire precautions including a ban on smoking. If there are any rooms or areas that are not needed during the event, it would be prudent to lock them and exclude the young people and adults so that they cannot be used as smoking dens. As well as having simple plans showing the layout, escape routes and alarm activation points in the relevant part/s of the school, it would be sensible to have some torches available for use in the fairly unlikely event of a power failure. This matter exemplifies an apparent inability by some fire officers to realistically assess fire risk in relation to potential ignition sources, likelihood of fire occurring, means of escape, etc. Their rigid stance is based on "when the fire occurs" even in situations where fire is most unlikely to occur or pose any significant risk. If the stipulations by the Fire Brigade seem to be the opinion of one or two officers with a rigid approach, it might be worth asking a more senior officer for a discussion about what is reasonable. As there should be a fire risk assessment in any event, for several purposes, for the temporary sleeping accommodation, (including information about experience and practice from any similar previous events) it should be taken along as a useful basis for discussion.

Posted By Renny Thomson Thanks Graham and Geoff, I agree, some Fire Officers do find it difficult to be flexible in their approach to assessing risks outside the norm. It was also fairly galling when the first officer seemed to be in agreement with our proposals, but his superiors did not. Still, we hope to have resolved it now. They are even offering to loan the detectors!

Posted By Graham Bullough Most of us who deal with schools will be aware of the increasing numbers of fires at schools. However, I understand that the vast majority of school fires arise from arson when school buildings are unoccupied. Of these I have been led to understand, rightly or wrongly, that most are opportunistic unplanned events where the perpetrators use combustible material already present on site, including waste from readily accessible unlocked refuse disposal bins. Can Shawn or anyone else tell us if anyone produces brief summaries of school fires in the UK? If so, do they include summaries of fires or attempted fires caused by pupils and others when schools are occupied? In relation to the risk of arson during the event described by Renny, no doubt the organisers will be considering the security and housekeeping aspects at the school as part of their planning and management of the event, and how they affect general safety and fire safety aspects.

Posted By Ken Taylor You are among friends Geoff. It will be worth checking that effective alternative exits/ means of escape remain available as necessary, Renny. It has been my experience that zealous schoolkeepers/caretakers may lock up everywhere they can if they know others will be on the premises and this can include essential escape routes. Needless to say, I have also experienced the reverse with boiler rooms, plant rooms, etc left unlocked.