Posted By shaun mckeever Sometime ago I visited my daughters school during an open evening and was appalled at the lack of basic fire precautions. The school had a significant number of people in at night. I subsequently wrote to the headtacher and suggested that a Fire Risk Assessment should be conducted. Last Novemebr during the firefighters strike I asked what progress is being made. I was informed they were waiting on someone who was willing to do it free of charge. This week I was at the school again and asked about the FRA. The headteacher told be that I was being a thorn in his side! I am still waiting for the FRA to be provided. Is this a common experience in schools?

Posted By John Murphy Shaun. Try giving the Local Education Authority Safety Manager a ring and ask him or her what the situation is regarding instruction and training for completing said assessment. I would expect them to take necessary action to ensure the fire rsik assessment is in place. John

Posted By shaun mckeever Jack, it is a local authority school. I wrote to the LEA sometime ago with a general letter about FRA's in schools but they just pass it on to the school and say it their responsibility. I have been in to a number of schools within my county and it is frightening to see some of the activities that are going on. I have seen acetylene cylinders on their side within a technology classroom, I have seen emergency exits blocked, not partially blocked but totally blocked, I have seen fire alarm systems that are now classed as illegal since they are mains supply only - the list is endless. Yet LEA's are leaving it to the local schools to make their own arrangements. The schools are loathe to use outside consultancies because of the cost but what is the cost of losing a school to fire? Fortunately fire related deaths and injuries in schools is low but there are still three school fires per day on average in this country. It is about time LEA's took control and ensured that FRA's as well as other Safety legislation is enforced in schools. Parents should be putting pressure on their childrens school and should become a thorn in the side if that what it takes.

Posted By John Murphy Shaun To answer your original question. No, in my authority and in those around me I know that it is not a "common experience". You started this string by complaining about one particular school attended by your daughter who had not completed their fire risk assessment but now refer to having visited numerous schools across the County where you are seeing many "frightening" activities going on. Whilst we kill two people a week on our construction sites we have not, that I am aware of, killed any of our children in our schools. (I accept that unfortunately there have been those killed in incidents when doing activities away from the school). No child or member of staff has ever died in a LEA school as a result of fire. I think we should keep this in prospective. In my experience the vast majority of safety professionals working within the LEA are dedicated and professional. They work within organisations that are not only resource limited but within a framework set up by this Government that has through what it ironically called "fair funding", given financial and other resources for the management of health and safety in their schools to the Board of Governors and the Head Teacher. The employer's duties under the H&SAW Act however, remain with the LEA. It is quite possible your school have made a decision not to buy back health and safety services from the LEA but from another source. I think it may helpful to establish this fact before you generalise about LEA safety advisers in your County or elsewhere. (If the school(s) are LEA and have opted out of the H&S service provided by them, then the school is responsible. If it is a VA school then the Governors are solely responsible and this should be established so that any responsibility can be properly identified) One final point, I am not naive enough to believe that all is rosy in the garden when it comes to managing health and safety in LEA run schools. Our teachers (and Heads) are under considerable pressure just in managing the day to day business of teaching our children with what are very limited budgets. In general I think they do a pretty good job under what are some trying circumstances. Every day we hear of teachers and their support staff who are exposed to violence and abuse and that's not just from parents, its from the children too. Perhaps helping the school to do their fire risk assessment might be a better way of moving ahead. If you feel that strongly about this, given the information you have I wonder why you have not expressed your deep concern to the HSE long before now. John

Posted By Ian Bruce As a Health and Safety adviser with an LEA, I am concerned at the comments raised regarding safety in some schools. I'd like to make a few points: 1. The LEA should be providing adequate advice to the Head Teachers to allow them to effectively manage the safety on their sites. This should include running appropriate training courses. 2. Advice should cover fire safety and the need to perform fire risk assessment. 3. It is "nigh on impossible" for the LEA advisers to be everywhere at once, that is why the Head and the Governors should be managing their own sites, irrespective of whether they are voluntary aided or not. 4. In my experience, schools are no worse than any other place of work for inappropriate safety standards; just go into any industrial facility in the country and you will see many things that frighten the trained eye! Very few places get it right all the time, in all the departments! 5. Yes, most schools are strapped for cash, aren't we all! But this sort of thing costs peanuts! In my LEA we provided each school with a fire risk assessment template that posed simple questions; simply by responding, a risk assessment was conducted. This didn't need specialist input. I'm happy to share this document with you if it helps your particular site. At the end of the day, the Head MUST do something, whether on his/her own back or through the LEA, or in conjunction with the local Brigade. They MUST manage their site! Being accused of being a thorn in the side is scary! The implications for safety go further than fire though. Do they have a policy? Have they "bought into the policy" by signing etc.? Do they have a safety committee? Is safety a standing agenda item at the governors meetings? As far as deaths in schools go, what about trees? Remember the tragedy of a few weeks ago? Schools need to think very closely about inspection, monitoring and review of ALL aspects of school life and equipment. I would encourage you to keep badgering this Head. Good Luck.

Posted By Ken Taylor Schools were not fire-certificated but operated under letters from the local fire officer - which were asked for by visiting inspectors. This system no longer seems to operate with fire authorities pointing to the need for fire risk assessment under the FP(W)Regs. Our schools have been approached by the local fire authority and had to submit copies of their fire risk assessments and I would suggest that the fire authority for your area be encouraged to do the same for the school in question. There is guidance from the DfES (including MSF Guide 6 - Fire Safety) in addition to 'Fire Safety: An Employer's Guide'. You could also tell the Head that Ofsted will ask to see this.

Posted By Eric Burt Bernard I take it you were talking locally and not making sweeping generalisations, as you will be interested to know that many LEAs have excellent Governor training programmes which include health and safety training. Unfortunately the take-up from Governors is variable - taking the horse to water etc etc, but it is not for want of trying on the LEAs part. There is also an excellent publication from HSE "The Responsibilities of School Governors for Health and Safety". Eric