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#1 Posted : 23 June 2003 10:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Martin Could anyone clarify the law regarding business use insurance for employees who use their cars for work purposes? The scenario is that somebody who is not required to use their own car for work is suddenly faced with a need to drive to collect or deliver something during the shift, so they use their own car (without business use on their insurance and without the employers permission). In the event of an accident during that journey I would imagine that any claim could be invalid. I would assume that this means that third party cover is also invalid and therefore this is a criminal offence - i.e driving without the legally required insurance. Is this correct or is it more of a financial issue i.e. not an offence but would invalidate you getting any money back. (I have tried to contact the police to find out their stand-point but haven't managed it yet, thought I'd try this forum in the interim). Many thanks for any help.
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#2 Posted : 23 June 2003 11:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser Martin, Have you contacted your insurer yet? I presume you have company vehicles on site and have the requisite business use vehicle insurance already, so they can advise you. Alternatively, contact any of the advertsied Insurance providers for advice, such Norwich Union - they are moving into specialist health & Safety areas and no doubt they've been asked this question before. One thing though - once you've done the leg work for this, could you post it back on here so we can share the information? Partly tongue in cheek but someone recently asked the question in "Transport of Casualty" - one response was that it was cheaper to use a cab in the rare event of needing to transport an injured person not requiring ambulance, than it was to extend personal car insurance. It all comes down to risk / reward calculations at the end of the day. Apply the same principles to the issue in hand - how often do you need to make these unscheduled collections/deliveries and how far do they have to travel, at what times etc.. Use the basic tenets of risk assessment to get your answer and then re-address your problem. Could you not use a courier service? That way you don't need to worry about it. You are right to be concerned, primarily on the part of your employees - we can never predict when an accident will occur, hence the need for insurance! (Although we can take steps to reduce the likelihood, obviously). So imagine the resentment it would cause if an employee received an injury during this transport, doing the company "a favour" as it were, and failed to make a successful insurance claim as a result. Another case where expediency over safety seems acceptable at the time but proves counter-productive in the long run.
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#3 Posted : 23 June 2003 12:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Martin Thanks for your response Sean. We do have a courier service in place for some of the operations that are known in advance, the problems arise when the journey is a one-off unexpected emergency (although due to recent events this is becoming more foreseeable). Geographical isolation plays a part as we're talking about a 30mile round trip for an authorised driver to make the trip, so sometimes the staff take the decision to jump in the car and go themselves. I'm trying to build the case to stop this - as you say, imagine the effect of an accident with no opportunity to claim for the damage when in effect the staff were 'doing us a favour'. To add weight to this, therefore, I'm trying to find out if the action is also illegal, i.e. against the road traffic act. I suppose it depends on whether the insurance company will still pay third party liability even if it was unauthorised / uninsured business use of the car. (The insurer I rang so far didn't know - I'll keep trying) Many thanks
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#4 Posted : 23 June 2003 13:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bill Elliott Martin - I think it is entirely dependant on the insurer and the wording of the cover. My insurance covers me to and from my place of work but specifically EXCLUDES business use other than that. In case of a claim arising in the situation you describe I would not be covered by my insurance and therefore would be in breach of road traffic legislation I presume. However, I have had business use added to my cover for the princley sum of under £10 per annum. A small price to pay I think and worth enquiring about.
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#5 Posted : 23 June 2003 13:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Hilary Charlton Likewise, my car is not covered for business use except getting to and from a place of business, but for mega amounts of dosh (about £10 pa), we had business use added to my husband's car which we can both drive. If my car was used for business I would not be covered by my insurance.
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#6 Posted : 23 June 2003 15:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Cathy Ricketts We contract all our employees to be covered for business use - a number of companies dont charge extra for adding this clause and those that do add a minimal amount. We pay the difference between the standard charge and the additional cost providing proof of the difference is provided. That way everyone is covered and we dont have a problem. This also means that if anyone is attending a training event etc during the working week and carries a colleague in their car they are also covered. Our current workforce is just over 400.
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#7 Posted : 23 June 2003 16:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lesley Hibberson I was asked to do some work at an alternative site on a temporary basis, which involved travelling direct from home to this site, the usual site and between sites during the day. Not knowing for the majority where I would be from one day to the next, using a pool car would have created too many complications. I, therefore, used my car with 'normal' private insurance cover. (Nobody knew how long 'temporary' was going to be - but turned out to be approximately 3-4 months!) During this time, I was involved in a 5-car shunt, which resulted in my car requiring full front-end repair. My Company's Insurers covered all damages under their own insurance cover, although I couldn't tell you the details of how and why. Nothing was mentioned beforehand regarding insurance, I doubt it was even considered - it certainly didn't cross my mind.
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#8 Posted : 23 June 2003 18:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graham Bullough As Cathy Ricketts has already pointed out, some insurance companies make no charge for including business use on people's car insurance policies and others make a relatively small charge of £10 (equivalent to about 4 or 5 pints of pub beer depending whereabouts you are in the UK) or so. Better to pay a little extra (better still if the employer will meet the cost of any extra charge) than give your insurer a chance of not having to pay up if you happen to be involved in an accident while driving on business. It's worth pointing out that many employers whose staff drive either regularly or occasionally on business, insist that employees have an insurance policy which includes cover for official buiness. My own employer's mileage claim form includes a declaration that the claimant's policy "provides cover whilst the car is used on official business, for full third party insurance, including cover against risk of injury to, or death of, passengers and damage to property." However, I suspect that most employees filling in such claim forms don't even read such declarations, so it's worthwhile for employers to at least remind employees about them from time to time. However, employers ought to avoid any doubt by requiring employees using or liable to use their cars for business use to bring in their insurance certificate to prove that they do have insurance and that it includes business cover! For good measure why not add the need to produce a valid driving licence and current MOT certificate? In this connection it seems that most employers take on new employees without making any checks on documents to prove qualifications, including driving licences. Thus, most employers would remain unaware of any employees with driving bans. It is not unknown for some employers to stack up all sorts of problems for themselves by giving company cars to banned employees and including them on the company's group vehicle insurance scheme!
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#9 Posted : 24 June 2003 10:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jo Scott Smith We faced a similar problem. Some company motor fleet insurances include "Occaisional Business Use" for people driving their own vehicles on company business. However the definition of OBU differs between insurers. Our insurer took quite a strict line and insisted that use be very infrequent and only covered emergency and unpredictable use. So if at the start of the day, for example, you knew that the collection was needed to be made and decided to use your own car this would not be covered. However if you discovered at 5pm that it had to be collected before 5.30pm it would be. In our case this was no use to us so we had to ask staff to extend their own private insurance for business use. As other repondents have advised, you need to talk to your own insurers about the level of cover (if any) provided. Otherwise staff driving on company business without extending their own insurance for business use are uninsured. Hope this helps
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